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Author Topic: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity  (Read 2850 times)

nocake

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HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« on: Jul 19, 16, 02:16:17 PM »

Hello Everyone,

This is very hard to write but I think it need to be said now.

I am very concerned with the state of HeroEngine as a Company, not as an engine.

The engine is amazing for what it is built to do, yeah it needs upgrade but nothing in comparison to HE and its public relationship.

There are very alarming bugs currently in the engine and received basically 0 attention.

Broken Particles:
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,6177.msg34986.html#msg34986

Broken Occluders:
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?topic=6264.msg35308

Sarrene replied to both but neither have been resolved.

We also received an extremely obscure progress report 3 months ago with no update.
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,6167.0.html



I also hound the forums and check constantly to see who was last active and I rarely see anyone from HE other than Sarrene and Herb.


March - AlexSH: https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=summary;u=17684
April 14th - Bennett: https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=5357
13 Days Ago - Christopher: https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=17684


There is very little output in form of what you guys are actually doing and its really scary for me to continue to produce my game.

I know Sarrene was recently brought in but it is still completely unclear of ANY other dealings with in the company or future plans. It is also unclear of what her role is. Is she project manager or community manager?

It really blows my mind that the main form of communication is Skype.
I create a discord channel which is an application that is blowing away the gaming market atm and only 3 people join yet all my other communities people are literally flocking to it.

I could rant for hours about these concerns but I wont anymore. I cant let this cloud of doubt shroud my progress anymore.



 
In writing this article I found this post as well which I am still not sure if it is live?
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,6170.0.html
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 16, 05:29:22 AM by nocake »
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HE-SARRENE

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #1 on: Jul 19, 16, 03:19:00 PM »

Hello and good day NoCake.

    Thank you for the message. Your concerns are understandable. Hopefully i can help address a few of these. Let me try to take a few of these things and address them best as I can.

Quote
I know Sarrene was recently brought in but it is still completely unclear of ANY other dealings with in the company or future plans. It is also unclear of what her role is. Is she project manager or community manager?
    Actually, I am COO for Idea Fabrik. However, I have at this time, a few hats I wear. Alex is the CEO/Chairman of the board for the company. So I am not sure how much he would need to respond to when it comes to general issues or questions.

    Our current Volunteer Lead (for when we get more to join the volunteer team) is Kelly, whom does handle much of the front end assistance in skype and on the forums. His specialty is HSL, though he is quite versed in other areas. Sadly these forums are broken and do not keep the new staff colours. They will on the new forums! :)


Quote
I also hound the forums and check constantly to see who was last active and I rarely see anyone from HE other than Sarrene and Herb.
    We are a small team, and the company always has been. A lot of time spent by the engineers before I came on board was answering problems, issues and general questions both via PM and on the forums. This was not conductive to a good workflow for the engine itself. More time was spent before I came on board answering these posts and PM's when they could have been working on the engine as they were hired and wanted to do.

    At this time I have the engineers working on issues instead of browsing the forums. It is, in my opinion, a better use of their time. We have dev and volunteer staff forums/categories that are set up that allows us to post and communicate issues and problems. Then myself, Jon or Kelly will report/respond with the answers or statuses. If it is important and requires engineers attention, we let them know. But they are aware of the forums and do still check them so they know what is going on.

    I dare say this, but Trust Me! The engineers are working supper hard on the engine and new fancy updates coming soon. I am afraid though of what they say behind my back. Task Master.. or perhaps some things not quite as nice. ;) However, they are working hard and 110% dedicated. Their work has impressed me and still does.

Quote
We also received an extremely obscure progress report 3 months ago with no update
There has been news since then. However, it is my bad that I did not repost them on the forum. I did remember to get it on the website, twitter, facebook, etc. My apologies for not posting it up on the forums as well.
http://heroengine.com/news
http://heroengine.com/news/updates/he-new-site (with a link to...)
http://heroengine.com/heroengine/he-roadmap

Quote
Their are very alarming bugs currently in the engine and received basically 0 attention.
Broken Particles:
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,6177.msg34986.html#msg34986
Broken Occluders:
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?topic=6264.msg35308
Sarrene replied to both but neither have been resolved.

I am not sure what alarming is. I guess it is a matter of interpretation and what is most important for the project (and how soon it is needed). So let me take these one at a time...

    Broken Occluders: These are in fact not broken. Occluding culling works fine, in fact better than it had prior to the last update. The team put a lot of work into getting those updated. That last major update had a lot of hard work put into it. One of the major things of that update was the new and better occlusion culling. The only thing broken is the Blade side visual aspect to it. Yes, the visual representation for developers is not working at the moment. But that will be back in.
    The dvps panel and the stats/rendering information does work, and reflects everything from current draws, cached draws, current texture counts, cached texture counts, and so on. There is actually a lot of nice information that is available via the panels.
   
    Broken Particle: This is broken in a way. But the particles themselves are not. It is the draw order for transparencies that are out of line. There are also different settings that now work correctly that have added shader types to them. Such as the cartoony outline that some saw. Just change the shader type if that is the issue. But visually there are issues....
    To put it simply: Some of the fixes that came in for the pre-dx11 had corrected a lot of "bad math"- old outdated or bad math/scripts - This in turn exposed something that was not detected during testing, or even after release until I was working on some particles and noticed. Shortly after that the post came up. So I knew it was not on my end only. This IS being worked on (and I think done) and will be in the next update, along with everything else that is in that package.

Quote
It really blows my mind that the main form of communication is Skype.
I create a discord channel which is an application that is blowing away the gaming market atm and only 3 people join yet all my other communities people are literally flocking to it.
    As many things, people do not always embrace change as quickly as others. And as explained before, everyone that has a windows pc has skype now. It is quick, fast and easy for most. I did state that I will be looking into the possibility of Discord as an official channel, however I have too much to do at this time and I would rather keep my focus on Idea Fabrik as a company, HeroEngine at this time, along with the other hats I am wearing. But I will look into this in time as an option. However, anyone is free to start a group anywhere. I cannot however promise nor force anyone to join any one elses group. Just like I cannot force anyone to join the Skype groups.

    It may help to instead of posting in the Skype channel post, to create a nice friendly inviting post for Discord itself, along with the information needed for those that might never have used Discord before. I think that may draw more attention and get more to join.

Quote
I am halting my project until we receive some clarity.
    I am sorry to hear that. I hope that in time, you will feel more comfortable and can begin development again. It is always nice to see developers work and their ideas grow and flourish. I hope to see more of yours soon.

- Sarrene'
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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #2 on: Jul 19, 16, 03:41:12 PM »

The only thing of significance in that progress post are these categories:

HeroEngine Updates:
Client Web Tools:   30%
HeroBlade 1 Update:   100%
HeroBlade 2 Update:   60%
 
Render and Graphics:
Render Engines Testing:   100%
Render Code Review:   15%
 
D3D11/DX 11:
DirectX 11 Update:   70%
D3D 11 Testing:   40%
Shader Update:   80%


Looks like the engine will receive a render update and that is all which is perfectly fine but this also looks like smoke and mirrors.

%'s gauge nothing.


Also if this was a small company I would think that would mean even more so Alex would be talking and interacting with their customers.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 16, 05:24:43 AM by nocake »
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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #3 on: Jul 19, 16, 05:33:14 PM »

I want to emphasize that this is an absolutely amazing engine. 

HeroEngine solves so many problems for us and brings us a ton of amazing resources but the community engagement is very little.

It is hard to convince others as well as myself to continue to put time into the project when we haven't seen much in regards to progress. 

Hopefully these next patches will show those progress bars are serious.

Thanks for the hard work, I will be waiting to see the updates to decide when we will continue.

Also is this image from HE on the new render updates? http://heroengine.com/images/stories/render-roadmap.jpg

Is there any video?

Amanda_Brooks

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #4 on: Jul 19, 16, 09:39:04 PM »

It's from the new render engine, but there are no videos available for it yet.
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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #5 on: Jul 20, 16, 12:30:04 PM »

It's from the new render engine, but there are no videos available for it yet.
just curious how do you know this?

Thanks.


Also the numbers on the website match the numbers that were posted on the forums 3 months ago. Has there been no progress or are the % just inaccurate?

Amanda_Brooks

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #6 on: Jul 20, 16, 01:58:18 PM »

I know it via Skype  :P

Also, the progress numbers do change from time to time as the updates are made - plus new goals are added, like the recent D3D11 testing progress bar.
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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #7 on: Jul 20, 16, 02:39:07 PM »

Farina

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #8 on: Jul 20, 16, 02:49:49 PM »

Lol. You're funny no cake
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Amanda_Brooks

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #9 on: Jul 20, 16, 03:40:53 PM »

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HE-SARRENE

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #10 on: Jul 20, 16, 04:07:20 PM »

Let us keep this to the current discussion and not an argument of which is the best messaging, please.

Nocake, I do still suggest making a separate post about your Discord channel. Post up the information, benefits and instructions on how to get there (for those that have never used Discord).  Then we can keep those topics separate and be easier for other users :)

Back on topic:
Progress numbers do and have changed, and more has been added. I did a comparison to make sure I did the correct update. For example, each phase of testing will boost or change the percentages. In fact I have more updates to adjust and add as well by end of the week.

Quote
%'s gauge nothing.
I understand where you are coming from, however, on this I must humbly disagree. Before I came on, there was 0 news or progress until the updates were out (or day before at most).

My attempt is to show what we are actually working on and the amount done on those primary tasks. Something different than previous years. Let you all know what is in the works. Sadly, I will not give dates for deadlines, because with the nature of this type of development, something can always come up and push the date back a bit. Sometimes it just happens to be sooner- such as with the last update. :)
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Archwind

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #11 on: Jul 21, 16, 04:57:34 PM »

Personally I been through this several times in the past with two other engines so my suggestion is to just work on getting your game done and out the door. If something is broken and in a repair stage go do something else with the project until it gets updated or invest in a different license so you can fix the bugs yourself.

It doesn't affect me much anyway since I am just hobby status but I can understand your points since you plan to make it a released game.

If you sit back and wait it out you may very well never get it completed in a timely manner so keep plugging at it is probably a better choice.

Just so you can understand a few things though. Several other engines out there that I won't mention here. They are great for single player and multiplayer but if you intend to do a massively online multiplayer you are going to face some serious set backs unless you have a GOOD programmer and network engineer to do the ground work for the infrastructure.

They have bugs too and are in constant update so you probably face a similar issue there too so jumping engines is just going to cost you MORE time and effort with your team.

Just my copper from past experience.

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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #12 on: Feb 15, 17, 01:47:26 PM »

Can we get an update on this.......

6 months later and we are still at the same spot wondering what these %'s mean.

http://heroengine.com/heroengine/he-roadmap

You guys have to stop eroding your customers confidence. Now there has been 0 update to the page and no year end recap to update on the progress just more possibilities coming in this post: http://heroengine.com/news/new-year-address-for-2017 .

So we are once again left with a useless page that really doesn't add anything. Where are the developer talks? or at least quick cliff notes to the community? where are the screen shots showing something working? Please just add a little bit of confidence to your work by providing something to back it up!

Once again we understand you are a small company and there is a lot at hand but you have left us in the dark for 6 months and your year end recap really didnt tell us anything the % didnt already.

Please take this time to look at how you are handling PR and just how bad it makes this engine look.

I need you guys to succeed, I put 5 years into my game on your engine and it is killing me to see the engine and community being handled this way.

Maybe the Skype group knows more than the rest of us but for now I am just left in the dark wondering and waiting like always with IF and HE.

HE-SARRENE

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #13 on: Feb 16, 17, 12:39:31 AM »

Had a nice discussion tonight with Nocake and it was quite productive. he gave me some good ideas. However, I wanted to let everyone here know that we are not ignoring this post, and there will be an update coming in the next day or two. I do have to finalize one thing first. So stay tuned for a small update post in the next couple of days.

On that note, I am going to say good night so I can take a nap before I have to get back to work in a couple hours!

Peace,
Sarrene'
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nocake

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Re: HeroEngine Company Status and Clarity
« Reply #14 on: Oct 25, 17, 11:40:43 AM »

This thread is being continued more than a year later on this thread: https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,6513.msg36545.html#msg36545