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Community Discussion Topics => Game Dev and Gaming => Topic started by: RogerWain on Nov 20, 11, 05:13:51 PM

Title: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: RogerWain on Nov 20, 11, 05:13:51 PM
The only problem with a large number of the dev team being active gamers is the ease we get distracted with the latest games (I am also included in the distracted list :(  )...

Curse you Skyrim - we are sinking hours into this game, it does have great visuals and the level design both indoors and out have a good flow. So I have asked the team to look at the game as an example of level design, and pick holes in it...

I am sure we're not the only ones affected by latest game releases (BF3 also comes to mind)
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-Cooper on Nov 20, 11, 08:06:12 PM
I'm loving Skyrim, as with most of them. Truth be told, this one is feeling even more similar to Fallout 3 than I've felt in the past, but all I want is Fallout 3 all the time, so that's good. And I think a lot of the gameplay trimming they've done finally makes a lot of sense. Like athletic skill causing me to jump everywhere I went in the last one. Finally the skill up system is only based on productive action, and scales based on value of action.

I really recommend just playing through the main storyline in linear fashion, it's a great track in and of itself, and provides a good pacing of gameplay and rewards, which I hadn't felt with the previous games. Then decide if you have time, and go back for the completionist win all the things playthrough.

PROTIP: if you notice the "As the sun sets you feel an overwhelming hunger" message, don't forget about it while finishing the dungeon you are in...unless you really mean to.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: JoshHalls on Nov 20, 11, 08:56:28 PM
Yeah, I love how everything comes out in November any more :-).  New Zelda is out as well and will require me to go steal back a Wii at some point. 
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: BraedonH on Nov 21, 11, 01:52:42 AM
Yes.. there goes my weekend to Skyrim. Completed as fast as possible xD
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 21, 11, 02:11:56 PM
also don't forget you can use your time gaming to see what others have done in their games and you can see what they did wrong and you know how to do it better lol  8) like I play quite a few MMORPG's right now and since I have been working on my Own MMORPG I get a sense of where the MMO's I play have failed and where I can do it better lol


so in other words Playing others games while you make your own = R&D for your game
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-BENNETT on Nov 21, 11, 03:08:35 PM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P

Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 21, 11, 03:22:47 PM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P


LOL that wasn't exactly what i meant rather the mechanics lol  but i also see your point too but I not saying go into playing a game to finds its faults but while your playing a game its faults will stand out to you if they are major I mean every game has it faults but you  can learn from where other games have failed ... if you don't learn from others mistakes than you will end up making the same mistakes.. like now days most MMO's are riding on Wow's success and build their games cloned after wow with nothing unique to them but other than a new GUI skin and thats not what gamers want is just another WoW, yea sure they want alot of features in the new games that WoW has pretty much made a MMO standard but at the same time they don't want where WoW has failed to  be in a new game or they will put your game down and just go back to WoW lol 
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 22, 11, 01:49:00 AM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P



I do this in the star wars beta... walk around going ooh thats nice... oh they coulda done that better... hey why is that sand crossing the staircase at an exactly even flat edge?

Drives people watching me play up a wall... I do that with movies too.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 22, 11, 01:58:05 AM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P


LOL that wasn't exactly what i meant rather the mechanics lol  but i also see your point too but I not saying go into playing a game to finds its faults but while your playing a game its faults will stand out to you if they are major I mean every game has it faults but you  can learn from where other games have failed ... if you don't learn from others mistakes than you will end up making the same mistakes.. like now days most MMO's are riding on Wow's success and build their games cloned after wow with nothing unique to them but other than a new GUI skin and thats not what gamers want is just another WoW, yea sure they want alot of features in the new games that WoW has pretty much made a MMO standard but at the same time they don't want where WoW has failed to  be in a new game or they will put your game down and just go back to WoW lol 


anybody who wants a game with anything resembling wow plays wow and isnt looking for a new game... gamers specifically want a game that is NOT wow or they would be playing wow.  As for your "that WoW has made an mmo standard".  WoW didnt make anything an MMO standard except thier stupid quest system where quests are always and perpetually announced with icons above npc heads and quest lines that always lead to the next quest and are set up so as long as you follow the quests you will never stop doing wuests until you are max level which takes bout 2 weeks if you "do it right".  Other than this everything wow has is stolen from much more classic games such as asheron's call, dark age of camelot, everquest, anarchy online, ultima online... they just made it "popular" with the "non-nerds" and thus everyone thinks wow is responsible for it's creation and implementation... where as in fact wow screwed up massively on a number of things from magically shrinking dinosaurs that become tiny when tamed to druids who cant cast roots in a small cave covered in roots but can cast starfall through an entire mountain to a hunter epic weapon quest that always gave you a sword even if you were specced for the bow to the complete and utter destruction of warcraft lore and standardized history such as making blood elves part of the horde and making undead part of the horde as well where as blood elves, undead and the horde were all enemies in a nice little triangle death pact with the horde having only used undead in the earlier years of the war due to the side effect of having been created by the scourge but stopped using undead when thier chieftan turned against the scourge.  So to WoW I say LONG LIVE THE IDIOT MASSES! now lets go make games that are NOT WoW...

Thank you this has been "Nightshadow's rant against all things WoW and people who praise or glorify WoW for having done anything special or unique to advance the world of MMORPG's"
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 22, 11, 03:15:16 AM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P


LOL that wasn't exactly what i meant rather the mechanics lol  but i also see your point too but I not saying go into playing a game to finds its faults but while your playing a game its faults will stand out to you if they are major I mean every game has it faults but you  can learn from where other games have failed ... if you don't learn from others mistakes than you will end up making the same mistakes.. like now days most MMO's are riding on Wow's success and build their games cloned after wow with nothing unique to them but other than a new GUI skin and thats not what gamers want is just another WoW, yea sure they want alot of features in the new games that WoW has pretty much made a MMO standard but at the same time they don't want where WoW has failed to  be in a new game or they will put your game down and just go back to WoW lol 


anybody who wants a game with anything resembling wow plays wow and isnt looking for a new game... gamers specifically want a game that is NOT wow or they would be playing wow.  As for your "that WoW has made an mmo standard".  WoW didnt make anything an MMO standard except thier stupid quest system where quests are always and perpetually announced with icons above npc heads and quest lines that always lead to the next quest and are set up so as long as you follow the quests you will never stop doing wuests until you are max level which takes bout 2 weeks if you "do it right".  Other than this everything wow has is stolen from much more classic games such as asheron's call, dark age of camelot, everquest, anarchy online, ultima online... they just made it "popular" with the "non-nerds" and thus everyone thinks wow is responsible for it's creation and implementation... where as in fact wow screwed up massively on a number of things from magically shrinking dinosaurs that become tiny when tamed to druids who cant cast roots in a small cave covered in roots but can cast starfall through an entire mountain to a hunter epic weapon quest that always gave you a sword even if you were specced for the bow to the complete and utter destruction of warcraft lore and standardized history such as making blood elves part of the horde and making undead part of the horde as well where as blood elves, undead and the horde were all enemies in a nice little triangle death pact with the horde having only used undead in the earlier years of the war due to the side effect of having been created by the scourge but stopped using undead when thier chieftan turned against the scourge.  So to WoW I say LONG LIVE THE IDIOT MASSES! now lets go make games that are NOT WoW...

Thank you this has been "Nightshadow's rant against all things WoW and people who praise or glorify WoW for having done anything special or unique to advance the world of MMORPG's"

I wasn't praising wow lol because for one that is the one mmo that i have never played more than fifteen mins..  but in fact with this generation wow is the staple to compare other mmos to just like with wow people said it was just another EQ which by the way I have played  like when I was 14 or so not really sure of the year lol becuase that how long ago I played it but if you read between the lines of my post you would see  that I was pretty much saying now days people do the same thing with wow with mmo's now as wow was compared to the mmos b4 it
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 22, 11, 03:26:52 AM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P



I do this in the star wars beta... walk around going ooh thats nice... oh they coulda done that better... hey why is that sand crossing the staircase at an exactly even flat edge?

Drives people watching me play up a wall... I do that with movies too.

LOL btw are you in the Nightshadow guild on the beta because there is a guild called nightshadow lol



but on the star wars game seeing as they just lifted The NDA for the beta to me its really boring lol the only thing to me  thats exciting about it is the story line but for me its not enough to justify making ppl pay 15 bucks a month just for the story line if all ppl wanted was a story line then they should just continue playing KOTOR lol because to me  thats all it is is KOTOR III in a mmo setting which is not enough reason to pay 15 bucks a month lol
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 22, 11, 09:56:53 AM
That can be the worst though:  "Hey! I can see that tiled texture/sharp poly edge/lower res texture on the back of the shield that fills up 1/8 of my screen... "

etc.

Being too close to game development can be terrible for immersion :P




In many ways what we are looking at with star wars is a continuation of Guild wars/Phantasy Star Online game series.  In both cases the original release was simplified but future releases expanded on the solid foundation to allow for much more variation.  The only difference is in GW and PSO/PSU everything was instanced once you left the main meeting areas and into the actual game.  Where as in star wars it is not so much the same as you walk in and out of instanced areas constantly but much takes place out in the open as well... thier seemless transition into the instances though is really well done.
I do this in the star wars beta... walk around going ooh thats nice... oh they coulda done that better... hey why is that sand crossing the staircase at an exactly even flat edge?

Drives people watching me play up a wall... I do that with movies too.

LOL btw are you in the Nightshadow guild on the beta because there is a guild called nightshadow lol



but on the star wars game seeing as they just lifted The NDA for the beta to me its really boring lol the only thing to me  thats exciting about it is the story line but for me its not enough to justify making ppl pay 15 bucks a month just for the story line if all ppl wanted was a story line then they should just continue playing KOTOR lol because to me  thats all it is is KOTOR III in a mmo setting which is not enough reason to pay 15 bucks a month lol
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: JMurdick on Nov 22, 11, 10:45:36 AM
Regardless of personal feelings about WoW, SWTOR, or Skyrim they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  Two of the three have proven that they are successful (and highly rated) games and the third is likely to do so.  As a student of the industry, look at each with a critical eye as a game developer instead of just a gamer (game-player) and recognize what each has done well.  Because you may not like WoW, but 12 million people or 3.5 million in sales in a week is a great success.  And so they have done something right in order to achieve both.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 22, 11, 11:19:47 AM
Regardless of personal feelings about WoW, SWTOR, or Skyrim they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  Two of the three have proven that they are successful (and highly rated) games and the third is likely to do so.  As a student of the industry, look at each with a critical eye as a game developer instead of just a gamer (game-player) and recognize what each has done well.  Because you may not like WoW, but 12 million people or 3.5 million in sales in a week is a great success.  And so they have done something right in order to achieve both.

I will only secede to the fact that WoW accomplished one thing well... it opened the door of online gaming to the masses of idiots and "non-nerds" who thought of online gaming previously as something only for nerds and dorks as well as created a game for all generations rather than a focused group.  Beyond they accomplished nothing worthwhile.  It is our job as real gamers making games for gamers to undo the damage WoW has done by releasing quality games for the people so they can see there is a lot more to gaming than mere repetitive bashing and huge required guild raids every week that suck out your soul and turn you hollow.  In this way we are the future of online gaming so long as we can avoid the mistakes most large game companies have done which is to try and repeat what wow has done.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-Cooper on Nov 22, 11, 11:34:22 AM
Personally for me, wow is hands down the greatest MMO to ship, and I've worked on many and played most. Best world, best story, best look and feel, best gameplay, best raiding, best time versus reward balance, best class balance.

I point that out, not because I would ever wish to have a subjective discussion of value at this high a level, but only to provide balance to your thought process when you think about who and what type of player you are targetting. Inability to parse out why wow works for so many on so many levels, regardless of what you personally look for in a game, is a handicap that I don't want any of our developers to have.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 22, 11, 01:03:33 PM
Personally for me, wow is hands down the greatest MMO to ship, and I've worked on many and played most. Best world, best story, best look and feel, best gameplay, best raiding, best time versus reward balance, best class balance.

I point that out, not because I would ever wish to have a subjective discussion of value at this high a level, but only to provide balance to your thought process when you think about who and what type of player you are targetting. Inability to parse out why wow works for so many on so many levels, regardless of what you personally look for in a game, is a handicap that I don't want any of our developers to have.

Yea even though i have not played wow that much myself i know that now days its the staple in which most mmos are compared to now days and I wasn't praising wow nor  trolling it because I have not played it enough to make any kind of comment other than what you hear in the market and from the gamers themselves as like I said if your Making a MMORPG most people are these days gona compare your game to wow and expect the things that they love about wow to be  recreated in your game so they get that same feeling the first time they played wow but the flip side is they don't want what they don't like about wow (its faults) in a new game because then they will feel like your game is just another wow clone with just a new gui over it lol and if they feel that way they will just put your game down and go back to wow... and thats where alot of MMORPG's fail is they just can't inovate anything new that wow hasn't lol

so thats just what i get from the MMORPGs communities i am in so I think the masses speak louder than the few
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: adrix89 on Nov 22, 11, 04:31:10 PM
Personally for me, wow is hands down the greatest MMO to ship, and I've worked on many and played most. Best world, best story, best look and feel, best gameplay, best raiding, best time versus reward balance, best class balance.

I point that out, not because I would ever wish to have a subjective discussion of value at this high a level, but only to provide balance to your thought process when you think about who and what type of player you are targetting. Inability to parse out why wow works for so many on so many levels, regardless of what you personally look for in a game, is a handicap that I don't want any of our developers to have.
It certainly is the best success, it pushed all the right buttons of addiction way before Zynga found the trick, and had the right hype from warcraft 3 and carved all of its own market.
The fact that f2p had had some MMOs left standing in its wake is just because they leveraged there accessibility.
But the fact is that all theme MMOs are destined for failure, even SWTOR looks like a bust in line with LOTR.
The next WoW killer will not be a clone.
The great joke is that MMORPG genre itself is still in the infantile stage, WoW literately doomed half a decade of progress.
I always wondered what would happened if WoW hadn't existed and Ultima Online was the inspiration of the next generation of MMOs.
There are some seeds like Darkfall, Mortal Online but there design is not there yet,Guild Wars 2 has some steps in the right direction but still not enough.
But the next WoW killer will come,and it will be its absolute opposite.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 23, 11, 01:08:30 PM
Personally for me, wow is hands down the greatest MMO to ship, and I've worked on many and played most. Best world, best story, best look and feel, best gameplay, best raiding, best time versus reward balance, best class balance.

I point that out, not because I would ever wish to have a subjective discussion of value at this high a level, but only to provide balance to your thought process when you think about who and what type of player you are targetting. Inability to parse out why wow works for so many on so many levels, regardless of what you personally look for in a game, is a handicap that I don't want any of our developers to have.
It certainly is the best success, it pushed all the right buttons of addiction way before Zynga found the trick, and had the right hype from warcraft 3 and carved all of its own market.
The fact that f2p had had some MMOs left standing in its wake is just because they levered there accessibility.
But the fact is that all theme MMOs are destined for failure, even SWTOR looks like a bust in line with LOTR.
The next WoW killer will not be a clone.
The great joke is that MMORPG genre itself is still in the infantile stage, WoW literately doomed half a decade of progress.
I always wondered what would happened if WoW hadn't existed and Ultima Online was the inspiration of the next generation of MMOs.
There are some seeds like Darkfall, Mortal Online but there design is not there yet,Guild Wars 2 has some steps in the right direction but still not enough.
But the next WoW killer will come,and it will be its absolute opposite.


finally someone with some sanity who hasnt been brainwashed by WoW... i wont condemn them 100% i mean they did accomplish stuff and thier success is undeniable but it's simple logic... If someone wants to playt WoW they will play WoW, if someone wants to play Eve Online they will play Eve Online, If someone wants to play a flying combat game they will play ace combat...  Sure you might get some customers by imitating thier success but that is like the eifel tower... they built it in france years before modern tools and cranes and everything else and it is a marvel of the world... then they build one in japan that is much smaller using modern tools... still cool but nobody says "Lets goto japan and see the eifel tower!"  no they say lets goto france...you cant be better than an original by copying the original... you will never succeed this way. Especially when the original is still around and going strong.  Sure pirates of the carribean did great as a movie remake... but it was remade atleast 20 years later after most people stopped remembering or never knew what the movie was and with all new tech and directing for the modern era... same story but everything else completely different.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-Cooper on Nov 23, 11, 02:06:31 PM
Actually, the most interesting counterpoint to that, is it's exactly the opposite of Blizzard's common methodology, which is to step forward in very little steps for innovation, and much larger steps in polish and fun. Wow at launch was a simple combination of Everquest and DAoC, with the "not fun parts removed". Something to think about.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: shadowfire on Nov 23, 11, 02:15:50 PM
did you just insult two of my favorite games?  Though I have many times over said that WoW stole a ton of ideas from DAoC and EQ and is thus not responsible for creating any of it.

However I am all for online games being released with minimal content and growing from there as resources and player base grows.  This is the best approach rather than a fully polished and shiny 100% game at release.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: joshwebb84 on Nov 23, 11, 02:28:22 PM
However I am all for online games being released with minimal content and growing from there as resources and player base grows.  This is the best approach rather than a fully polished and shiny 100% game at release.


Yea that does tend to improve the longevity of the game as you keep adding new content over the life time of the game
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: adrix89 on Nov 23, 11, 02:37:20 PM
Actually, the most interesting counterpoint to that, is it's exactly the opposite of Blizzard's common methodology, which is to step forward in very little steps for innovation, and much larger steps in polish and fun. Wow at launch was a simple combination of Everquest and DAoC, with the "not fun parts removed". Something to think about.
That was Blizzards opportunity which is gone now.
It is time to be rough and dirty and teach those mega-corps they know shit about design and let them stand back and polish our ideas afterwards.
They haven't even discover the big secret of MMO design when it is so obvious.
A themepark MMO is a heresy in the fullest sense of the word.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: Stadi_Thompson on Nov 25, 11, 11:59:33 AM
Skyrim is great!
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-Cooper on Nov 25, 11, 12:19:09 PM
I put skyrim on hold for Dark Souls. Good lord the punishment, more forgiving than demons souls, but just as much controller flinging fun.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: JoshHalls on Nov 28, 11, 03:26:26 PM
Demon Souls reminded me if playing Mega Man 1 and cursing at the screen way more than you should ever playing a video game.  Controls seemed to be just about as responsive as well.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: mproducer on Nov 30, 11, 12:12:57 AM
I spent some time recently in Star Wars TOR Beta and I have mixed feelings about it.
We are allowed to talk about it now legally.
Loved some aspects, and disliked others. Loved the big environments, but in order to handle the massive numbers of characters, they slowly turned down the LOD over time. For example, early in the beta I could see details in the other characters close to mine.
By the last day they had reduced the quality of characters (LOD) to reduce the lag (I am guessing this is the reason) so characters standing next to you were devoid of many features, and smooth with low quality textures.
I really liked the cut scenes when you entered a conversation area, or communicated with a story character.
The environments were very nice, and I could stand on a cliff overlooking an entire city area.
My big issue was that most of the time it looked like my male Jedi was not wearing pants.
So that seemed awkward, like my character was a pervert showing himself.
This did not occur for the male Sith, Republic Trooper, or the Bounty Hunter.
Overall it was quite interesting experience, but I will have to now have my artist change the color of the planned game GUI. SWTOR used the light blue color, so I will have to use another color.
 
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: HE-Cooper on Dec 01, 11, 07:12:32 PM
Mproducer, they slowly ramped up the number of players allowed in a server as the tests went on to stress test. There more people near you caused the more models to LOD as your video card ran out of memory.

I was actually the most disappointed that the starting experience consisted of nothing but fighting for spawns. Otherwise, man was I pumped to see how well outlet server tech handles the massive numbers being thrown at it.
Title: Re: Loss of productivity - Curse Skyrim :)
Post by: RandyE on Dec 07, 11, 08:41:27 AM
Mproducer, they slowly ramped up the number of players allowed in a server as the tests went on to stress test. There more people near you caused the more models to LOD as your video card ran out of memory.

I was actually the most disappointed that the starting experience consisted of nothing but fighting for spawns. Otherwise, man was I pumped to see how well outlet server tech handles the massive numbers being thrown at it.

RIFT was like that for a solid 2-3 weeks :(

I like to refer to Skyrim as research...yes, that's it. That's what I tell my wife when she gets on me about playing it. I'm like "you want me to make a profitable MMO? I must research Skyrim." Little does she realize, Skyrim is Single Player. Just don't tell her that. Although, I'm planning on implementing a few things from Skyrim into my game, I'm trying to decide if FFA-PVP is a good idea with a Crime System in place. I'm also thinking of using the skill system as opposed to using a class system I like how the skill progression progresses you in levels, I think combining that with an old fashioned tried and true XP system for leveling is the way to go...