HeroEngine Forums

HeroEngine Support => Art & Art Pipeline => Topic started by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 09, 15, 12:42:23 AM

Title: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 09, 15, 12:42:23 AM
So no matter what i do, my models have a weird specular effect. Basically it looks like my guy is shining a torch onto the surface they are facing. Also the specular only shows at very acute angles most of the time. Light direction doesnt seem to effect this. The specular looks fine when i take the model into unity or other engines. What is it about hero engine that makes the specular just appear as a grey blob.

Ive had this problem for a long time now. Sometimes the specs do this, sometimes they work fine. My artists say things like "what the hell is that...that is not what i made, why does it look like that"

(http://s4.postimg.org/9wesutyil/weirdspec.jpg)

Title: Re: Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 09, 15, 12:57:22 AM
This is a single example of a wall panel, you can see it looks totally different. even the little blue lights are showing up here.

(http://s13.postimg.org/s89og9c13/properspec.jpg)
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Amanda_Brooks on Apr 09, 15, 07:44:47 PM
We've also been having a few issues with some specular maps that create way to much of a gloss effect, even when they have the same level of specularity as other maps that perform normally - but we're waiting until the Quartz.d update to see if it's fixed.
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 10, 15, 03:04:48 PM
Yah, the spec and normal system is pretty basic. The standard hero material import settings dont really let you get a good appearance imo. The normals that should appear extremely prominent dont really show at all. Some basic sliders that would let us change spec and normal values on the fly would be helpful. Also maybe being able to set the spec colour seperate from any light settings would be helpful.

The problem i was having was that the elements were not attached properly, so was causing a very horrible spec issue (where viewed at most angles would just be a blob or circle of spec highlight). Attaching them again fixed it.
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Amanda_Brooks on Apr 10, 15, 03:27:04 PM
A basic set of graphics settings similar to the Unity ones would be useful, so that projects could use them for fast testing, and then build out the settings to match their own requirements.
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: HE-Cooper on Apr 12, 15, 09:25:56 AM
This issue looks like files are not set up correctly. The depth or prominence of the normal is all controlled in the normal map. Runtime changes to texture files can have negative effects on material instancing benefits.
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 12, 15, 09:39:14 AM
This issue looks like files are not set up correctly. The depth or prominence of the normal is all controlled in the normal map. Runtime changes to texture files can have negative effects on material instancing benefits.

The normals are fine. Hero just doesnt seem to pick up the normals as other engine renderers do. Ive tested a set of textures out of the box by putting them into unity and unreal and they work perfectly fine as intended, with the correct level of depth. I stick them into hero using the max hero material and the depth just looks almost totally flat for the most part.

Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: HE-HERB on Apr 12, 15, 03:10:15 PM
There have been moderately large improvements to some graphical shaders in the upcoming release.  This may or may not resolve this issue.

Please kick the tires once the new release is out.

The way this works in the future dx11 (and dx12) updates is completely new, so you will definitely get better results there.

Cheers
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Amanda_Brooks on Apr 12, 15, 05:28:32 PM
dx12

That's the first time I've heard anything about that - is it something that's being worked on, or it it just a general future goal right now?
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: HE-HERB on Apr 12, 15, 06:11:33 PM
A significant amount of graphics work in moving from dx9 to dx11 has been in architecture and features outside the core renderer itself.   A number of these non-breaking, backwards compatible architectural changes and improvements are in the pending release.

And, dx12 has been taken into account the entire time the dx11 renderer has been in development.

Therefore, the overall timeframe from dx11 to dx12 will be shorter.

One of the biggest challenges with the dx11 release has been to add new graphical improvements without breaking everyone's existing content.  That's why the initial release is called "Parity+": it has more features and looks better than dx9, but it's not going to break people.

That said, there will be a list of things that you will probably need to review and tweak, for example:

And, there's going to be features (e.g.: lights now have independent ambient, diffuse, and specular color and intensity) where the new values will be defaulted and you will want to now tweak them in some or all instances.

Both sets of tweaks and new features will be documented on the wiki.

My current expectation (subject to schedule changes, waving of hands, YMMV, etc, etc) is that the dx11 release (which is part of the threaded, 64-bit client) will be followed by one or two release sets of big new features, and then the dx12 release will occur.  I can't say what the timing looks like on those.

Cheers
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Amanda_Brooks on Apr 12, 15, 08:12:01 PM
Thanks for the information - it sounds like there's a lot of fun stuff coming up in the future - and I don't think that projects having to readjust their lighting is going to be a major problem, as they're all likely going to want to go through their lighting set ups anyway to play around with the new features.

As for the normal maps, would it be a good idea for any projects that are currently making their assets to lean more towards softer normals to minimize problems with them in the future?
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 13, 15, 07:31:59 AM
Oh boy...those changes sound sexy :)
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: HE-HERB on Apr 13, 15, 10:29:12 AM
Quote
As for the normal maps, would it be a good idea for any projects that are currently making their assets to lean more towards softer normals to minimize problems with them in the future?

I believe that one set of problems is due to normal maps being made directly from a simple gray-scale copy of the color diffuse / albedo map.  And, the other set of problems is that because it used to be very hard to preview normal maps in content creation tools, it was a guess as to what they looked like in the client.

As I'm sure you're following best practices and using modern normal map creation tools, you won't have to change your process  ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: nocake on Apr 13, 15, 05:18:58 PM
wtb more information from Herb.

Seriously, please be more transparent about the upcoming changes!!!

I know it takes more time to make things public but the amount of time we have spent trying to make things look right in HE because of these problems is too damn high.

I had even contacted support about this and got little to no feedback.

Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: HE-HERB on Apr 13, 15, 06:11:27 PM
@nocake - Yeah, understood.

There's definitely a balance.  We don't want to jump the gun and tell people the wrong thing, and we don't want to wait until a release is imminent and surprise people.

There's also always back and forth on whether and if there are mitigating changes that can be made if there's an impacting change like these.

For non-HSL related client issues or feature questions, the forum is usually the best place to post the question because that's where it's easiest for me to see the question.  And, it helps everyone.


Cheers
Title: Re: (solved) Blob spec?
Post by: Prometheus2012 on Apr 14, 15, 12:57:34 PM
I dont mind having to adapt any current assets to conform with graphics upgrades. Anything that makes the game look better is a win win in my eyes.