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Author Topic: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement  (Read 19635 times)

NEIL

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #30 on: Oct 17, 11, 02:27:50 AM »

Mirific, the legal documents enabling you to continue using HeroCloud if either of us opts out are in development, but they will have the effect of amending the original agreement and will therefore replace the original obligations.  It's only if there is no amendment that those provisions must continue.
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zeromajstor

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #31 on: Oct 27, 11, 12:23:03 PM »

Hello,

Sorry for asking, but I got few questions to me make sure I understand everything allright, with all this posts. I want to make it short and simple. I make a game with HeroCloud, (1)who is free? (2)We don't need to pay any extra costs? (3)And if game comes out HeroEngine takes 30% of revenues? (4)What happens if game never comes out (does we need to pay anything)? (5) Do we need to pay any costs to HeroEngine on beginning, or they just give us access to HeroCloud and storage place? (6) If game comes out, and its published on HeroCloud servers, do we need to pay any costs or that is in that 30%? (7) What period HeroEngine to make a game?

P.S.I am asking all this because English is not my main language.

Thank You and Kind regards
« Last Edit: Oct 27, 11, 12:25:23 PM by zeromajstor »
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NEIL

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #32 on: Nov 07, 11, 04:29:50 PM »

(1)who is free?

Your development team is free.  Actually everything is free -- we get 30% of revenue once there is revenue.

(2)We don't need to pay any extra costs?

Correct.

(3)And if game comes out HeroEngine takes 30% of revenues?

Correct.

(4)What happens if game never comes out (does we need to pay anything)?

You never pay anything if your game never comes out.

(5) Do we need to pay any costs to HeroEngine on beginning, or they just give us access to HeroCloud and storage place?

No costs in the beginning.

(6) If game comes out, and its published on HeroCloud servers, do we need to pay any costs or that is in that 30%?

No costs, just the 30%.

(7) What period HeroEngine to make a game?

Whatever it takes.
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DeeRobbins

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #33 on: Nov 17, 11, 05:34:58 PM »

4.5 Customer Data. Both the Developer and Idea Fabrik shall jointly own any data derived from the provision of the HeroCloud Services.
Any use of this data shall comply with the Idea Fabrik privacy policy.


I have highlighted this section as it has raised a number of concerns for us.. can you please advise or clarify the following:

1) What is Idea Fabrik's privacy policy (we dont see one anywhere)

2) What does Idea Fabrik plan to do with OUR customer data? e.g. will they use it to target our clients for other games and products/ sell the customer data on etc??

3) Does this now mean that ALL Developers have to agree to the Idea Fabrik privacy policy. (having not seen it i am raising this as it may contrivine what we currently have in place on the other services we provide for our customers)

4) Does Idea Fabrik reserve the right to amend this policy and the developer reserve the right to decline if they accept it at this time?

5) If the developer agrees to 4.5 does that mean that Idea Fabrik share liability if an issue arose relating to any breaches relating to data protection?

I only raise this point as i notice that it has not been mentioned and the other concerns that have been covered somewhat in other posts.

We currently have a custome base of over 1500 members on another service that we as a company have guarenteed complete confidentiality with no information sharing, on lauch we were planning to offer the same, we are  now very concerned that we would have to state that WE as a Business now share our customers Data.

We are also very concerned on what this information will be used for by Idea Fabrik as per the question (2) If our customers were targeted for new games that Idea Fabrik hold intrest in that could all too easily cause issues. We totally understand that Idea Fabrik has an intrest in our prodution and that the explaination for many questions raised has been that it is not in Idea's intrests to see a business fail, it is however also clear that Idea rightly want to recoupe there investments and hold no risk moving customers from one game to another within there fold. This would be a win win for Idea however would be fatal for the indie developer. Keeping gaming customers for any length of time is a hard task without opening the door for target marketing.

This scenario holds major implications for a stuggling Indie company whose customers are there bread and butter. Idea will hold intrest in many games however we Indie's will be working our asses off for OUR 1 baby.

It does not matter how great a game is if there are no customers to play it and im sure that you will appreciate we do not wish to have to share the customers we have already lined up and those that we plan to gain at launch with any other game freely as i am sure WOW would not willingly offer up there client list to LOR. Building a solid customer base takes alot of hard work and or money all of which is at the Developers expense and i fail to see how it benifits us share and to state that we share customer data.

I am hoping that the concerns raised are fixable, flexable or explainable.

I look forward to your comments and answers. Dx
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HE-Cooper

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #34 on: Nov 20, 11, 07:57:03 PM »

Easy and quick answers:

1. Derived data doesn't mean players' actual data, it means the information derived from your players. Like, how many, how long, age ranges, etc. Information to help us know about your game, and to help us know about our tools.

2. Our privacy policy is for us, as in the policy we as a corporation follow. Not something you agree to. We have no NDA we require you to sign, you can talk about anything you want about our tools. How good they are, how terrible they are, etc. The Idea Fabrik corporate website, where this policy once was, is not exactly in the greatest state of repairs at the moment. But the policy, like most other companies' policies that have access to user and developer data, is that we won't talk about your game unless you want us to, and that we can't give out any information about your users. Technically, us contacting your users about another game would be "giving out your users'" information, but I can see where you would not make that jump of logic, so when the corporate privacy policy page goes back up, we'll make sure that it calls that out specifically for you.
« Last Edit: Dec 07, 11, 05:44:33 PM by HE-Cooper »
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DeeRobbins

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #35 on: Dec 21, 11, 06:43:11 AM »

Thanks for the response Cooper, i will check out the info as soon as it is available and would really appreciate a heads up when it is available :). I am still unsure why Idea would want our client info if they do not plan to utilise it in any way however trust that the privacy policy will clarify this for us. Many thanks again Dx
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HE-Cooper

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #36 on: Dec 21, 11, 07:01:47 AM »

Our privacy policy says we can't share identifiable info about you or your players with anyone.

All companies, everywhere in the universe collect non-identifiable data about all users that touch their system, for statistical, analysis, performance metrics, predictions, etc etc etc. The controversial companies, like Facebook and Google, are the ones who track and combine identifiable information with all usage, and all communication, and then provide that data to 3rd party companies to do with as they please.

But I'm pretty sure if you think about it, you'll realize that we need to have that clause in place to run metrics for you.
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DeeRobbins

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #37 on: Dec 21, 11, 07:14:54 AM »

Ok ty for the extra clarification, yes of course we appreciate that the statistical info is necessary for any business to perfom analysis and forcasting. We of course would be doing the same. When you state that you are "running the metrics for us" does that mean that you will be providing us with data anaylsis also?
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HE-Cooper

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #38 on: Dec 21, 11, 09:00:28 AM »

We provide the straight-forward top level usage statistics. Accounts, logins, etc. The specific data of "How many times did a player do x" would need to be coded by you, since those are gameplay system specific.
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neopangaia

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #39 on: Jan 06, 12, 10:37:23 AM »

I have a question as well, which was stated previously:

Quote
6.2 Outside the Idea Fabrik Platform. In the event You make any of Your Games available outside the Idea Fabrik Platform, You must give us ten (10) days written notice, and You agree to pay us thirty percent (30%) of any Revenue paid by end-users by you or by your distributors or agents related to such game for a period of two (2) years from the date such Game is no longer exclusively offered on the Idea Fabrik Platform. Without limiting the foregoing, our Distribution License for such Game shall survive in accordance with Section 12.3.

If I have a game on HeroEngine and later decide I may need to switch engines (or is it possible to buy a full license with cash as opposed to the 30%?) will I need to pay the 30% for two years even though I have switched engines?

What about if I make a game with a different name? I simply am uncomfortable with having to pay the 30% for two years REGARDLESS even if/when I switch engines. Please clarify exactly what this means.
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NEIL

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #40 on: Jan 12, 12, 09:28:59 AM »

You need to look at paragraph 14.4 which defines the word "Game" in context of this agreement:

14.4   “Game” means a custom online video simulation made available by Developer using the Idea Fabrik Platform, and operated using the Idea Fabrik Platform, to Idea Fabrik, and all related content, including, music, picture, video or other graphic and data files, and all related code (that enables Customers to access and operate such Games). Sequels to the Game or other such derivatives of the Game (other than incremental add-ons to the Game) shall not be considered part of the same Game for purposes of this Agreement and the rights granted under this Agreement.

So if you port your game off of the Idea Fabrik Platform it is no longer part of this agreement.
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Kalagaraz

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What happens if you go bankrupt?
« Reply #41 on: Jan 15, 12, 06:27:45 AM »

So I'm curious if I start developing a game over the next couple years and invest thousands of dollars paying artists, programmers etc... What happens if HeroCloud goes bankrupt and has to shut down?

Without the source code to the engine (which is $75,000) I can no longer work on the game or host it off site anywhere else.

Is there a contingency plan in the TOS or EULA for this kind of situation? Would we get the sourcecode for free at that point? Would you still be selling the engine for $75,000 and we'd be forced to either pay $75,000 for engine or basically go back to square 1 on our development with another engine?

The same thing happened with Blade3D except they didn't go bankrupt. It was $99 a month to pay for the engine and you developed game on their servers. But a chinese investment company took them over and just shut it down. Everyones game was left high and dry that they spent a little over a year working on.

EDIT: http://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,1072.0.html

It says on that page if you shut down the herocloud we get free access to source code and that it's mentioned in EULA, however I read the EULA and do not see that mentioned anywhere.

Quote
12.2 Continuing Use License. If Idea Fabrik opts not to renew this Agreement at the end of any Term, Developer may license the
HeroEngine for operating the Game outside of the HeroCloud service. License terms and conditions will be made available to Developer
through the Idea Fabrik website and will include a 15% royalty to Idea Fabrik on running revenues from the Game.

There that, but it just says I have to option to license it, is that the $75,000 license cost or is it free?
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 12, 06:48:21 AM by Kalagaraz »
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Ruarch

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #42 on: Feb 28, 12, 09:02:09 PM »

Quick question about 7.1 Ownership by Developer. Subject to the rights granted to Idea Fabrik under this Agreement, as between the parties, Developer will own all rights, title, and interests (including all intellectual property rights) in and to the Games and Developer Content (but specifically excluding the Idea Fabrik Platform).

Does developer content include the scripts we write in HSL? I'm pretty sure it does but just checking ;)

Voarsh

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #43 on: Jan 24, 14, 05:49:23 PM »

Does this thread still contain the latest information?

If not, can you please share it?

EDIT: I noticed that the pricing has changed, can you please update me on the one-time transfer fee for moving to self-hosted. Also, upon choosing the best sales option, the final Agreement will be made, and then "we" can proceed?

In document (Agreement) it is stated that it is $25,000, plus licence fee + the 30% revenue made.
Can you please also say how we (my company) would pay Idea Fabrik if we host ourselves, since we're not using your payment provider?
« Last Edit: Jan 24, 14, 05:53:17 PM by Voarsh »
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keeperofstars

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Re: The HeroCloud End User License Agreement
« Reply #44 on: Jan 24, 14, 09:52:22 PM »

I might be a bit off on this, but I think the devs prefer you still use their payment / account piece to some degree so they can ensure the revenue shares, but as with everything, I am sure custom contract options are available on a per case bases.

Overall their billing / account system is pretty good, it would be nightmarishly time consuming to get a full account system setup, and pricy, as you have to be able to confirm a large amount of cash on hand to handle payment disputes, especially if you want international sales configurations. Then there are all the legal aspects of foreign tax collections etc. So while not against it might want to really take a deep look at the options you can come up with.
Nothing is set in stone though and best thing to do is contact sales when dealing with a per customer situation.
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