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Author Topic: [Resolved] seamless world combat zone lines  (Read 5626 times)

HE-ANDY

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #15 on: Dec 08, 12, 11:58:29 PM »

As simple as I can answer, "no."

cf:   http://hewiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Server_Process_Diagram
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FI-ScottZ

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #16 on: Dec 09, 12, 02:21:17 AM »

Ain't nothin simple bout that diagram ;D
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Scott Zarnke
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keeperofstars

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #17 on: Dec 09, 12, 10:08:05 AM »

I've looked through and understand the diagram I've looked at it about 2 hours, along with the other building for scalability, and such, but the question remains.

Does an area in the game, get physically tied to just 1 piece of hardware (area server) or all available resources.
Even with building smaller seamless areas, I need to have some rough estimate on how many players I can support based on hardware availability so I can build the proper queue system, etc.
If the entire server cluster has 50 ghz processing, but a single area only has access to 10 ghz cause it's locked to 1 piece of hardware when its spun up, then that changes my limits by area. If i has access to all 50 ghz then i know my world needs a queue or max player limit and my areas will swing resources around as needed, and a single area doesn't need a queue system as long as I spread the players out to take advantage of spaitial awareness and culling.

I attached a quick diagram of what i want to ask, in case that helps.




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JoshHalls

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #18 on: Dec 10, 12, 02:46:46 PM »

I think he is mostly asking about the limitations of a single area process (rather it can scale beyond 1 core and from there beyond 1 server instance).  My understanding is that it is a single process (meaning tied to a single server) and I am guessing tied to a single core (not sure though, but might support more).  While a lot goes into working in and around other area systems (system areas in particular) it is helpful to know the limitations of the area process so you can plan around it.
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HE-ANDY

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #19 on: Dec 10, 12, 03:07:51 PM »

It's never as simple as that. 

The current implementation is one process = one thread.  The hardware upon which it runs varies on the game needs in production.  During development a shared server is used.
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JoshHalls

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Re: seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #20 on: Dec 10, 12, 04:03:18 PM »

Is a single area (say area x instance 1) a single process then where only a single thread handles the routines for that area (minus system areas, pathing, anything else remotely done, etc)?  Anyway, that was my understanding of it, just was never 100% sure on it.
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Warded

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Re: [Resolved] seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #21 on: Dec 13, 12, 11:28:04 PM »

Quote
Engine infrastructure FAQ
What is the backend architecture like?

We take what a "small bite" approach. We divide processing to small, logical bites -- each area is its own process, support services are separated out into multiple processes. This lets us migrate small chunks of the world from server to server.

For instance:

    An area spins up and is on a server with five other areas (processes).
    The new area starts an event that attracts lots of players.
    As that area's load increases, we can move the growing area process or the other processes

to another server to the point where the area with the event will be the only process on that server, if necessary.

One process on one server defines the maximum limits for any one area.

Which is what Andy was saying.

Is there any documentation of what the Server and Network specs/speeds would be (at least an estimate)? This information is vital to understand area limitations.
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WorldWideZ

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Re: [Resolved] seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #22 on: Dec 14, 12, 01:45:46 AM »

For whatever reason they dont want to reveal the cloud setup to you , asking ten different ways gets you nowhere

what ever size area you build , if its performing poorly you can reconfigure to increase potential. This is more important than knowing specs of machines they may not even be used by the time you release.
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keeperofstars

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Re: [Resolved] seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #23 on: Dec 16, 12, 12:16:04 PM »

For whatever reason they dont want to reveal the cloud setup to you , asking ten different ways gets you nowhere

what ever size area you build , if its performing poorly you can reconfigure to increase potential. This is more important than knowing specs of machines they may not even be used by the time you release.

just asking with persistance cause its' not just oh make a few config changes, it's oh rebuild your entire game, add tons of extra things, possibly go back to game design board and change game features.

And well with 99 seats kinda hard to really quantify a solid test load on the server with actual players, beyond setting up a few thousand AI's in an area and seeing how that goes, which we are doing to test things, but that isn't a really solid test with the fact the key areas won't have AI loading / bogging other parts of the server down.

but I think we have haggled enough we will just let it go. Kinda surprised though others haven't thought about needing to know how hardware plays into the equation, and just think throwing more will work, but it also sounds like once you get that far along hero engine guys will do what they can to make things work, just wanted to try and be as super efficient with my server code as I can be, and knowing physical server limits, is only way to be highly efficient. Not to mention it's not a super trade secret on knowing if an area in the engine is tied to 1 piece physical or multiple pieces, but from everything we have gathered, it's basically tied to 1 server and the engine knowns who to move other crap between the servers in the cluster, so your major player limit is the amount of resources you can put on 1 server. Which by time you add on quad cores, with 4 processors if you really needed it, you can throw so many people into a huge massive area that the players would have to much client side lag it wouldn't be playable.

I want to say thanks for the information and help everyone provided, it has helped drive us to figuring it out a bit more.

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HE-Cooper

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Re: [Resolved] seamless world combat zone lines
« Reply #24 on: Dec 16, 12, 01:08:22 PM »

You should check out the wiki entry on automation testing. Also, I've never worked on a game where you worried about what ghz of processor the hardware would run on, so I might suggest reading up generically on server architecture construction in the massive game space for concepts and ideas. You can assume that you'll have access to cutting edge hardware, but I fear if you need to know whether a CPU is a 6 or an eleventy-fifth that there might be a disconnect somewhere.
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