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Author Topic: [Resolved] Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)  (Read 4246 times)

Ineedcash12

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[Resolved] Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« on: Jan 21, 13, 10:52:57 AM »

So, after importing my terrain from WM, I decided to use a height setting of 25, it was a bit flat, so next import test, 35, still a bit flat, but no actual flat spots.  Imported as 55, and the upper part of my hills are flat.  They are not flat in the 25, or 35, just 55+.   It seems that the height setting makes flat spots on any hills that exceed a certain height limit.


It doesnt matter what the terrain size is,  we have a 25km world we are importing, and instead of doing all 400 pieces to see that the terrain setting is messed up we broke it into 4 pieces, so we can see overall the terrain and find bugs like this faster.



http://i.imgur.com/gCgcSqN.jpg


Has anyone else experienced this?
« Last Edit: Jan 22, 13, 05:37:16 PM by HE-Cooper »
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HE-Cooper

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #1 on: Jan 21, 13, 10:57:57 AM »

Terrain has an upper and lower limit. If you're hitting the upper limit, then you'll need to change the scale of your terrain. Within one area you wouldn't want a vertical offset off a mile for instance, as that would barely even be possible in the real world. :-)
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Ineedcash12

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #2 on: Jan 21, 13, 11:03:33 AM »

What is the upper and lower limit?  because going from WM to Hero is becoming a nightmare.   


and when I was importing the areas that were broken apart, into 400 pieces, I still hit the limit even though it was 250 by 250 areas and was going up a gradual hill.


Is there a way to turn off this limit, because with the area, its hard to get a view of the size of hills/valleys in Hero without importing the areas as large pieces first, then going back and importing broken up more?
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HE-Cooper

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #3 on: Jan 21, 13, 11:11:36 AM »

I think you might be misunderstanding the relative scale, or something like that. In the past i know you had a number of world machine exports that were almost completely flat when you exported them, so maybe you are still mismapping something? If you're needing to crank the Y scale import up to 55, then you are exporting your raw format files at a very small Y value.
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Ineedcash12

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #4 on: Jan 21, 13, 11:18:21 AM »

Ok, so when im in WM I use altitude scaling, correct?  For this export, it was set to 3413 Meters.  Heres how the terrain looks in WM.




http://i.imgur.com/mRw8l82.jpg
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 13, 11:21:29 AM by Ineedcash12 »
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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #5 on: Jan 21, 13, 11:23:54 AM »

I can't tell you how to use an external program, just how the data looks when it's in an exported format, but it looks to me like you are using some crazy huge vertical scale there. Almost 4000 vertical meters?
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Ineedcash12

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #6 on: Jan 21, 13, 11:34:33 AM »

If I don't use the 3.4k meters, and a height setting that is 55, the ground looks relativly flat when it goes into hero.  Our first export was only 1k meters and it was FLAT in Hero.


 

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HE-Cooper

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #7 on: Jan 21, 13, 01:52:16 PM »

It sounds like you've still got some tuning to do on the export steps then, and that your exported raw file is only using a limited range of gray scale. I would look into the documents and tutorials for World Machine that talk about export settings and Y scales. Just from a limited look at your scene in world machine, it looks like you're using a very low amount of resolution in the X and Z in order to get a very high amount offset in the Y, which is always going to be problematic in actual heightmap scenarios.
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HE-Cooper

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #8 on: Jan 21, 13, 02:17:01 PM »

Okay, looking at your test area, yeah, you've misunderstood the relative scale thing here with regards to connected areas. First off, you have 10 thousand square meters of heightmaps. 1600 64 by 64 vert heightmaps. I am, well, I am seriously pumped our engine is handling that so easily.

Secondarily, that means you are trying to reach vertical scales of like 200 meters in a single area. So you might be misunderstanding how areas work, and how heightmaps provide the functionality that they do. If you want to have your players traverse 1000 vertical meters (something I would definitely not recommend gameplaywise) there's no problem in the engine at all, as each area is just going to be connected to the area next to it, and its own heightmaps will raise up more than the last.

But right now...you have 1600 64 by 64 heightmaps in one single area, so yes, you are definitely hitting the vertical ceiling of heightmaps in a single area.
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FI-ScottZ

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #9 on: Jan 21, 13, 04:43:46 PM »

Quote
have your players traverse 1000 vertical meters
Maybe the world is ready for a good Mt. Everest sim? ;)
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Ineedcash12

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #10 on: Jan 21, 13, 07:44:17 PM »

The 1600 64 by 64 area pieces is 1/4 our actual world size and used for testing of the terrain large scale.  This way we can just import 4 pieces of terrain, and get the actual look of the full 25 km area.  Our actual game test world will have 400 pieces of 250 by 250. 

But overall, the engine imports that in about 4 minutes, but once its in, there is no deleting it, so you have to make a new area for the next trial run.

Can you imagine importing 200 pieces of terrain to find a flat spot in it, I'd cry.  :'(


Just so were clear, does it calculate from the lowest point to highest, and once you exceed the limt of distance between the two, it makes the rest of the upper flat, and I'd assume it would start at the bottom?


I've spent the day exploring WorldMachine and believe the issue was not so much in the altitude scaling, but the Advanced Perlin device scaling.  Going to play around with it a few more days before we go back to Hero.


Also, I've noticed that once I import the terrain, it appears about 200 meters up above the camera, even with a small piece.  Which leads me to believe the terrain is starting at a point a few hundred feet above sea level, and then rising with a hill  farther.  So I've made it start closer to sea level to see if that helps.



« Last Edit: Jan 21, 13, 08:25:29 PM by Ineedcash12 »
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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #11 on: Jan 22, 13, 09:52:49 AM »

The reason why you can't delete it, is because your machine probably isn't able to select 1600 nodes at one time without running out of memory. Even my beast of a development machine lags down to a halt trying to do that, since selection has to turn off every performance saving feature, like occlusion.

You can easily see the bounds of the heightmap in a single area by just taking one heightmap and lowering it as far as it will go on one half, and raising it as far as it will go on the other half. But again, you will never need to run into that problem, as you will never be loading thousands of heightmaps into a single area.
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Ineedcash12

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Re: Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #12 on: Jan 22, 13, 01:01:02 PM »

You mean in the same area that has 1600 heightmats to just lower the next batch?

When I attempt this, nothing happens.
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JoshHalls

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Re: [Resolved] Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #13 on: Jan 23, 13, 03:07:46 AM »

Just as a question here, why are you doing it in so many pieces?  We can import a full 4x4km heightmap in one piece without any issues (pretty much had to have the LAA flag that they added in sapphire that we were linking in manually).  Might be able to do 8, haven't really tried as we have a process for splitting and linking it via script that works pretty efficiently for us.
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Ineedcash12

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Re: [Resolved] Height setting messing up terrain (Flat)
« Reply #14 on: Jan 23, 13, 08:36:47 AM »

Which part, the 1600 piece overview, or the 400 piece actual game world?


How are you able to import a 16 sq km area? o.O 


Can you elaborate on the script that splits your area up?

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