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Author Topic: Your Feedback is Appreciated : Grimcat Studio Indiegogo Campaign  (Read 5273 times)

grimcat

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Shortly after getting involved involved with HeroEngine, my friends encouraged me to push forward on an idea I've had for years regarding a collaborative game studio. I put my other projects on hold and we formed a small team to put together an indiegogo campaign.

We've spent four months polishing our pitch and attracting attention, and I'm happy to announce that I pushed the 'go live' button this morning.

I'd appreciate the community's feedback on the idea. Please have a look when you have a chance.

Grimcat Studio Indiegogo Campaign
« Last Edit: Jul 06, 13, 02:00:08 PM by grimcat »
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TGSRofar

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Nice video.  I'm interested to see how it works out for you. Time will tell.
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Ron Farrell
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grimcat

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Thanks, Ron. It will be a learning experience.
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HE-Cooper

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I've found, as it's been somewhat my job to pay attention to both our own developer's attempts, as well as learn how best to position industry campaigns, that there are some pretty specific factors required for even minimal success.

Just to put into perspective. There have been something close to 30 various funding campaigns for HeroCloud games. 4 made more than a thousand USD, 2 made more than 25k.

I'll give you the limited information I have for even moderate success relating to the games industry:

You need 1 of the following:

o      > 2k followers on facebook before the campaign
o      Someone with a name that people will recognize in the industry, or with > 2k twitter followers
o      Hardware and/or software heavily focused on modding, open platform, android, linux, etc
            But you must also have a tie to at least one writer at one of the 5 or 6 websites frequented by the folks who like all that good stuff.
o      A game review / writer either in your pocket, or whom you've been in contact with that is psyched about your stuff
            But even then, you have to have a lot of footage, working / interesting gameplay that appeals to a specific audience who are without a game to call their home right now, or who crave some type of game from days past.

That could all be BS, but it's held up pretty much so far from all the various spreadsheets I have relating to it. :-D


« Last Edit: Jul 06, 13, 08:51:19 PM by HE-Cooper »
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grimcat

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Thanks Cooper,

We've managed to reach further in the first day than I thought we would. I was also a bit surprised when Jen Page signed on at the last minute (kind of a friend of a friend thing). Sounds like she actually does have a blogger in her back pocket. Hope she shares!

-Sage
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HE-Cooper

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I don't know who Jen Page is, but if it's 1 of the two model mayham girls at the top of your page, I was actually going to recommend removing those, it gives the whole thing a bit of a creepy feeling for me and confuses the message. But I also feel sad at conferences with Booth babes, and there are certainly 40 thousand men between the age of 17 and 54 at those shows that disagree with me, so what do I know. :-D
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Amanda_Brooks

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Just to put into perspective. There have been something close to 30 various funding campaigns for HeroCloud games. 4 made more than a thousand USD, 2 made more than 25k.

I think a lot of projects - not just HE ones - fail to understand just how much groundwork needs to be laid before you can have a hope of reaching a decent sized funding goal - it's almost like some groups get an engine, play around with some stock assets and a few of their own, throw together some concept art, and then think that they're halfway to launching.
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grimcat

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@Cooper,

I think Jen Page would be best known for her role in the cult web flick : The Gamers - Dorkness Rising, and more recently Project London.

I think the message about the scanned models will become clearer once we get the consent form back from the male models who where interested. Jen and Jessica were the first to get their info back to us, and those were the photos they wanted me to use. All in all, we had about 15 who were interested, mostly just indie game fans. I keep pressing them to get their bios finished, but it's a sunny weekend and I have to be understanding.
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keeperofstars

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careful with the mayhem girls they got a lot of attention for bad here. Assets seemed stolen and was in question. Even if it wasn't true, it's all about impressions and if they have done that else where could get a negative mojo.

The concept sounds ok, but i think it's going to be hard to raise that much money, also the scans are nothing big today. For about 400 bucks you can get quality motion capture and body scanning, that feeds into 3dsmax directly, using an xbox kinect and with the new defintion tracker the new kinect will have, by end of year motion capture and body scanning will be studio quality and only cost about 400 bucks in total. So I think your asking for a large purchase item that isn't really going to help the project achieve it's goals.

Would of probably been better to state the money would be used to help cover paying artists for contract work, per your model, but with you guys starting out using the grim cat purse to cover those first artists. That way you could of "instantly" built out the asset library as a base to get people attracted. So basically have GrimCat with a studio setup with a decent asset library setup at this point, to be demoed / used. Even if it was just 30 models made up. With the indeigo project being pimped to greatly expand that library to new heights, which would allow you bring the modelers in, first and have the crowdsource community follow.

That way people could experience your system first hand. Then make the decision to crowd source you guys setting everything up.

Also might want to reword the crowdsource examples. I get the whole the artists would like 2k for his work, so he crowd source, but to an individual looking they are going to think psh why should he get paid 2k for a model. Now while that is not unreasonable, people looking for cheap / crowd sourced material aren't thinking 2k. Even if their chunk is only 10 bucks, to get to that goal, I can get 400 models of super high quality for $50 bucks. and with so many sites offering free commerial public licensed models, your model will have a challenge getting off the ground. Especially with the fact people are hidden from the costs of all those asset packs they buy for 20 bucks, and call it done for a while. The people making those packs are making tons of money, doing it the typical way, so going to be harder to entice them into your model, without them asking for tons of money.

I do like the concept though, and think it could be very helpful. A key is getting modelers into the system, and you can't do that till you have people wanting to pay, for stuff, so as you said it's an egg before chicken situation, yet you drove your money into something most people aren't really concerned with.
So need to prove to the crowd source why they need / want those scans, in more detail than what you currently have. Cause 30k of your budget is summarized in 1 paragraph with no example of what that scan can or will look like, (demo is all that is needed, possible example images you can probably get from the site with permision to use on your crowdsource sitE) you have a link to the scanners site but while there I saw their studio works with kinetic as well, so once again, I lose my need or want to help you buy these scanners. Even if the quality is wonderful, in comparison. Also you don't mention that you will use those scanners to scan everything you can get your hands on for free to the community or for $1. Which would be a huge selling point for your campaign. Hey help us buy these expensive scanners, and we will scan a billion objects from tvs, to printers, to the garden gnome at mom's house, to the office chair we all use, to the sword billy has over his mantle and provide them all to the community for $1. That at least gives me the initiative to donate caues I know if you guys get the scanners I will have a constant streaming asset library of quality models to start work from. But with you guys focusing on human models, it doesn't provide much at all to game developers. Beyond a base shape model which can be done with several softwares via a few sliders, the scans offer nothing. I still have to build all the textures, clothing, etc. So might want to reword your goal with the scanners to help boost why people want you to have one.



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grimcat

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Thank you! Real feedback. Let me digest.
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grimcat

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Re: Your Feedback is Appreciated : Grimcat Studio Indiegogo Campaign
« Reply #10 on: Jul 07, 13, 12:21:28 PM »

Quote
careful with the mayhem girls they got a lot of attention for bad here. Assets seemed stolen and was in question. Even if it wasn't true, it's all about impressions and if they have done that else where could get a negative mojo.

There must be some history that I don't understand, and I'm not quite sure if I follow what you mean here, but I am interested in hearing more. I'm not really familiar with Model Meyhem, and although I know that both Jessica and Jen have pages up there, I'm not quite sure what differentiates a 'Model Meyhem' girl from others.

Quote
The concept sounds ok, but i think it's going to be hard to raise that much money, also the scans are nothing big today. For about 400 bucks you can get quality motion capture and body scanning, that feeds into 3dsmax directly, using an xbox kinect and with the new defintion tracker the new kinect will have, by end of year motion capture and body scanning will be studio quality and only cost about 400 bucks in total. So I think your asking for a large purchase item that isn't really going to help the project achieve it's goals.

The new Kinect will do a decent job, but I've had my hands on the artec scanners for an hour demo session, and there are a few things that set it apart from other setups I've used. One thing thing being the way that the scanner 'lights' the subject. 400 bucks in a year or two will get you some good results, but even the most expensive scanners available today have some limitations with fine detail and hard edges that I just don't think non-dedicated hardware will be able to match. The Artec Spider probably does the best job, and it will be a number of years before it's tech trickles down to more consumer affordable devices.

That being said, it may be a bit too much for most games. Scanning models with a next gen Kinnect may provide a level of detail that produces a detailed enough normal map to keep everything looking real.

Quote
Would of probably been better to state the money would be used to help cover paying artists for contract work, per your model, but with you guys starting out using the grim cat purse to cover those first artists. That way you could of "instantly" built out the asset library as a base to get people attracted. So basically have GrimCat with a studio setup with a decent asset library setup at this point, to be demoed / used. Even if it was just 30 models made up. With the indeigo project being pimped to greatly expand that library to new heights, which would allow you bring the modelers in, first and have the crowdsource community follow.

We had thought of this, and if the indiegogo campaign fails, might go back to the idea. I'm glad that you brought it up.

Quote
Also might want to reword the crowdsource examples. I get the whole the artists would like 2k for his work, so he crowd source, but to an individual looking they are going to think psh why should he get paid 2k for a model. Now while that is not unreasonable, people looking for cheap / crowd sourced material aren't thinking 2k. Even if their chunk is only 10 bucks, to get to that goal, I can get 400 models of super high quality for $50 bucks. and with so many sites offering free commerial public licensed models, your model will have a challenge getting off the ground. Especially with the fact people are hidden from the costs of all those asset packs they buy for 20 bucks, and call it done for a while. The people making those packs are making tons of money, doing it the typical way, so going to be harder to entice them into your model, without them asking for tons of money.

Hmm, good point. We're really trying to push the idea of letting artists get paid for what they're worth, and most of the model packs to obscure that. I guess we're hoping to expose the real cost so that people see where it comes from and hope that it starts to stabilize expectations over time. But you're right, people might not want to see that in the same way that we don't really need to know where our groceries come from when we just want to put something together for dinner.

Quote
I do like the concept though, and think it could be very helpful. A key is getting modelers into the system, and you can't do that till you have people wanting to pay, for stuff, so as you said it's an egg before chicken situation, yet you drove your money into something most people aren't really concerned with.
So need to prove to the crowd source why they need / want those scans, in more detail than what you currently have. Cause 30k of your budget is summarized in 1 paragraph with no example of what that scan can or will look like, (demo is all that is needed, possible example images you can probably get from the site with permision to use on your crowdsource sitE) you have a link to the scanners site but while there I saw their studio works with kinetic as well, so once again, I lose my need or want to help you buy these scanners. Even if the quality is wonderful, in comparison. Also you don't mention that you will use those scanners to scan everything you can get your hands on for free to the community or for $1. Which would be a huge selling point for your campaign. Hey help us buy these expensive scanners, and we will scan a billion objects from tvs, to printers, to the garden gnome at mom's house, to the office chair we all use, to the sword billy has over his mantle and provide them all to the community for $1. That at least gives me the initiative to donate caues I know if you guys get the scanners I will have a constant streaming asset library of quality models to start work from. But with you guys focusing on human models, it doesn't provide much at all to game developers. Beyond a base shape model which can be done with several softwares via a few sliders, the scans offer nothing. I still have to build all the textures, clothing, etc. So might want to reword your goal with the scanners to help boost why people want you to have one.

I like your thoughts here. We're lining up some demos of us actually using the scanners, and we'll be talking a lot about the 'why'. Hopefully it help frame the problem and solution a little better than we have so far.

Again thank you for your feedback. I was especially delighted to see that you were able to restate our business model so clearly, and your comments gave me a lot of additional ideas.

- Sage
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keeperofstars

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Re: Your Feedback is Appreciated : Grimcat Studio Indiegogo Campaign
« Reply #11 on: Jul 07, 13, 10:17:26 PM »

I really hope it works out, cause I think it's a great idea.

And as I stated, rework some of the scanner focus from detailed models of people, into detailed models of people, AND objects lots and lots of objects. Human shape and form, pretty easy, modeling an antique designer lamp much harder, in regards to time effort.

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grimcat

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Re: Your Feedback is Appreciated : Grimcat Studio Indiegogo Campaign
« Reply #12 on: Jul 07, 13, 10:58:48 PM »

Quote
And as I stated, rework some of the scanner focus from detailed models of people, into detailed models of people, AND objects lots and lots of objects. Human shape and form, pretty easy, modeling an antique designer lamp much harder, in regards to time effort.

We're on it, and we'll make a distinction on the types of human models that we are looking and why we feel it is an important offering to the community with something like "...Real human faces are born, and grow, and tell a story. We will search for human stories to incorporate in your games."
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