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Author Topic: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 11699 times)

JoshHalls

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #15 on: Apr 10, 14, 10:59:02 AM »

Character distance can be checked locally as well, most likely everything that is needed on the client is already on the client if they are getting say messages in their chat window. That being said, it is one of those things you can easily add as an option unless it goes against the core UI design (mostly why ESO doesn't have it as they wanted to go with a minimalist UI) and even in that case with some careful programming it could be disabled so people aren't using them to take over mouse control in combat and the other lovely things players do to get any edge they can get :-).

Either way, was more in line with what Cooper mentioned of blaming them for things completely unrelated to the engine and was a design decision.
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FI-ScottZ

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #16 on: Apr 10, 14, 12:10:05 PM »

It is already built into HeroEngine that when you attach a gui to a character you can set the gui to fade in/out based on distance from the camera.  And that is, naturally, all client-side since anything to do with the camera is specific to each individual client.
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Amanda_Brooks

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #17 on: Apr 10, 14, 01:46:52 PM »

On a sidenote chat bubbles do not need to add any extra network load. We just rigged them into the chat system client side. There's an option on the chat window to display them. If it's enabled it creates a new bubble any time local area chat (/say) displays.

If you have time, could you do a short tutorial post on implementing them in that way, or even just a check list of what needs to be done to implement them like that?
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nocake

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #18 on: Apr 10, 14, 03:32:51 PM »

On a sidenote chat bubbles do not need to add any extra network load. We just rigged them into the chat system client side. There's an option on the chat window to display them. If it's enabled it creates a new bubble any time local area chat (/say) displays.

If you have time, could you do a short tutorial post on implementing them in that way, or even just a check list of what needs to be done to implement them like that?

https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,5331.0.html

I posted that the other day.

I really didn't mean to thread jack ha. Too far gone now I guess.

keeperofstars

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #19 on: Apr 10, 14, 08:15:21 PM »

if it's client side I will exploit it, have the chat bubble show up for every single person's chat, so as long as they are in my viewable player I will have their bubbles on. So now your fade in and out distance is exploitable so the feature is once again turned off by any normal player as a way to prevent the opponent from seeing them having a huge neon sign above there head.

pss frank, lets kill player B (neon sign shows above a box's location) Enemy: go kill that talking box.

So now people won't use chat bubbles for anything that isn't a direct chat to someone.

My point still remains list off the times your player in a FPS combative game will use chat bubbles, and why will they use them, and when. If you can provide a list of any meaningful list then i'm fine, if your list is, well... then it's not worth the time and effort, which is why nearly all games don't put them in. With one exception of npc interaction, which is a tad different aspect, but that is about the only reason that tends to work out in any type of real combative game.

Have to look at every feature in your game from a cheating, dirty playing, hardcore gamer, that has 100 friends he plays with that work in percision teamwork, and see where and how it's to be exploited. When you look at things in those goggles you tend to find a lot of hacks and issues.
But you say why do I care i cater to the common player, well once it's found / exploited it will either affect common player, or common players will start to utilize it as well.

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nocake

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #20 on: Apr 10, 14, 10:20:36 PM »

implementation is everything.


I would like to see your case example against my chat over head feature i implemented.

I know there is exploits still in place but as for changing the in game 'fps' experience, I don't see that.

Please review my code, I am interested in seeing specific examples against what I have implemented so far.


Things not implemented right now for example would be a command limit per user and a max display over head GUI setting. So a client can set how many chat bubbles can fill his screen at once.
« Last Edit: Apr 10, 14, 10:23:27 PM by nocake »
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keeperofstars

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #21 on: Apr 11, 14, 08:40:04 AM »

you still haven't listed when and why a player would ever use a chat bubble beyond npc interaction.

That is my point when you boil it down, there isn't a good time, place or reason for chat bubbles to exist in modern MMO's which is why they don't. So there isn't a need to implement them as they won't be used among players. So the only valid reason to have them is with npc interaction, which is a whole different story to begin with, then "chat bubbles" cause they really aren't chat bubbles at that point, in regards to players desire for chat bubbles. Also the implementation for that is much less complex, and has no real exploitable marks, well it has a few, in regards to generating server side lag, but those can be modestly dealt with.

I'll dig through the code later, when I get homes. :)

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Amanda_Brooks

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #22 on: Apr 11, 14, 09:37:49 PM »

On a sidenote chat bubbles do not need to add any extra network load. We just rigged them into the chat system client side. There's an option on the chat window to display them. If it's enabled it creates a new bubble any time local area chat (/say) displays.

If you have time, could you do a short tutorial post on implementing them in that way, or even just a check list of what needs to be done to implement them like that?

https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php/topic,5331.0.html

I posted that the other day.

I really didn't mean to thread jack ha. Too far gone now I guess.

And is that part of the chat system client side to cut out any extra network load, the way JCSmith said it should be done?

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Warded

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #23 on: Apr 11, 14, 10:30:29 PM »

Anyways..... Congrats on the splash. Hopefully people will realize that past games mistakes were not your mistakes.
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jcsmith562

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #24 on: Apr 12, 14, 01:44:09 AM »

Just a quick note, the foundation classes were written a while after we licensed the engine, so I'm not too familiar with how the foundation chat classes work or how different they may be than what we are doing.

Our chat uses a GotChatMessage hook which passes the sender nodes id along with it and then interprets it client side with something like this:

Code: [Select]
  sendernode as NodeRef = sender
  if sendernode != None
    if $InterfaceOptions.ChatBubblesEnabled()
      firstcomma as Integer
      when channel
        is "Say"
          firstComma = FindString(message, ",")
          var bubmessage= SubString(message,firstComma + 3,(message.length - 1) - (firstComma + 2))
          NewChatBubble(bubmessage, sendernode)
        .
      .
    .
  .
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Thazager

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #25 on: Apr 27, 14, 01:28:59 PM »

It seems not everyone likes the way ESO turned out. This video is rated M (adult language).
Elder Scrolls Angry Online Review
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Prometheus2012

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #26 on: Apr 28, 14, 04:05:54 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

On this video at 4:50 when he falls into the water you can see the hero engine heightmap grid underneath lol

FI-ScottZ

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Re: Congrats on The Elder Scrolls Online
« Reply #27 on: Apr 28, 14, 04:18:23 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

On this video at 4:50 when he falls into the water you can see the hero engine heightmap grid underneath lol


True.  The view at 5:10 as she is wading clearly shows the gray checkerboard.  Between that and the compass which we know is built into the Clean Engine, at that moment it does not look a whole lot different from what we can make in a clean test area in a short while.

Not to say that there was not a lot of work put into it; I'm sure there was.  Just interesting to see something in a released game that looks so much like what we are all already very familiar with.

I have no familiarity with that game, but from the review it sounds like what has plagued The Old Republic: making a standard cookie-cutter MMORPG with a popular IP slapped on it and expecting that popularity alone to be enough to carry it.
« Last Edit: Apr 28, 14, 04:20:53 PM by ScottZarnke »
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