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Author Topic: any chance we get more frameworks?  (Read 5332 times)

AWW_boss

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any chance we get more frameworks?
« on: Sep 16, 14, 04:22:59 PM »

I am thinking these would be good candidates, but correct me if i am wrong:

- video options
- sound options
- customization of controls

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keeperofstars

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 16, 14, 08:29:17 PM »

if they were going to build more frameworks, I would like to see better more meaningful ones.

Skill system base

Trade system

vendor shop system

etc etc etc.


The ones you listed aren't really frameworks, they are just setting text in an ini file via some gui. Which is all client side anyways. Rather see them focus on server side frameworks where we can't really build our own HSEI stuff.
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Prometheus2012

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 20, 14, 07:27:18 AM »

Its probably better to just make all this by yourself from scratch. I think the HE devs actually would prefer this than having us rely on any of these frameworks to a great extent.

Although saying that, having hero engine be a little bit more user friendly for newer groups would help a bit i think, which is probably what the frameworks are meant for.

As cooper and a few of the other HE devs have said before, anything they create in terms of a framework probably would not be suitable for your game, it would probably require a lot of tweaking and extending to the point where you might as well have made your own system anyway.

Irushian

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 20, 14, 02:16:15 PM »

At one point there was a roadmap on the wiki that said they had several planned, unsure if they've scrapped them or if they're still planning on doing them though.

Another planned update might be interested in was seamless 3.0 (mentioned on the same page). Though I can't find any references to these on there any more.
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keeperofstars

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 21, 14, 11:47:07 AM »

well there are some nice frameworks that are game independent but really save a ton of time.

For example the chat system foundation.

You can build it out any way you want, they just managed coding all the messaging queues, marshalling, building out the command setup etc.

From there you can decide what chat you going to use, what chat channels, what rules govern each chat channel independently etc. So the devs have full control over every aspect so that the system fits into every type of game needing a chat system.

Similar things with some of the other foundations. The item system, just provides some of the bottom end boring stuff. But all the item stuff how it's managed etc really gets left up to the game devs.

So there are ways to do the foundations that provide the base functionality and then let the game devs build on top of it, / tweak to meet their needs.
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WorldWideZ

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 22, 14, 12:54:54 AM »

better documentation would be good in some cases , either wiki pages explaining how the framework is laid out , or comments in scripts to alert you which scripts are linked. There are a couple of systems that have two or three versions , but the depreciated versions are not marked as such and can be confusing when first learning the engine.
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Prometheus2012

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 22, 14, 10:47:16 AM »

The wiki could use a complete overhaul tbh

keeperofstars

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 24, 14, 09:03:07 AM »

it's not that bad really for a technical wiki, what would be nice is a bit more rounded tutorial example(s) on some of the more key pieces of things.

For example the skill spec tutorial is great but ends about 3 videos too short.

A quick tutorial on the chat system so it becomes less confusing for new people would help, etc.
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Thazager

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #8 on: Sep 24, 14, 07:19:59 PM »

Having something basic, similar to the statusbar, would be nice. Each feature could be the bare minimum needed for the system to work. That way devs have a place to start and modify to the way their team needs it.

Yes, many parts would be changed by each team, and by changing the parts they learn how it is done.

Another option would be making some basic tutorials, not on the complex systems, but on the basics of "how to".
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keeperofstars

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #9 on: Sep 24, 14, 09:55:39 PM »

while I'm all for basic how to's.

We have to keep in mind, this is MMO territory. You HAVE to have a certain ability to really grasp abstract concepts, and super high level and detailed coding methods. If you struggle with them, then your not going to pull it off.

There is a huge gap between coding a single player RPG and coding a MMO. The devs provide the information to us in the wiki for most things, and only some of the higher level systems could use some better explaining or sampling, as they tend to rely heavily on back end source we don't get to see as a client machine.

It's a real fine line. But just cause you can code doesn't mean you understand the complexities needed to code a MMO. When every decision down to what data type to use, can make or break your game. Worrying about how to make a status bar, should be something you can easily figure out. If you struggle to hammer out a solution, then I feel you will struggle for a very very long time on your MMO. Not to mention we have a status bar example, the health bar is a status bar, we have a compas, we have hotkeys, we have a default character controller, we have minimap, we have nearly all basic common aspects of a game. For other game tuypes they have the sample worlds.


Not being mean just being honest.
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Thazager

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #10 on: Sep 25, 14, 12:37:13 AM »

Not being mean just being honest.

Ok, then by saying "you", you are meaning anyone who is reading this ... ? and not specifically me? (as that is how it sounds)
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Prometheus2012

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #11 on: Sep 25, 14, 11:50:38 AM »

I think the developer created tutorials that a few of you guys have made have gone a long way to making the engine a lot more accessible to new teams and projects. I remember there were a few tutorials by the engine developers but they dried up.

It would be very beneficial if they created a line of basic tutorials showing just some real basic implementation of certain things perhaps.

But like i said, i realise that their time is at a premium and if a team cant create systems from the ground up on their own prowess i dont think they will get very far in the long run. I feel any basic tutorial will just be there for training purposes.

Essentially when you bring a new coder onto the team, that is no familiar with HSL you will need to show them something. You cant just say "ok make a chat system". Ive used many examples and tutorials to train my new coders, but there are still big gaps so they learn on the job and sometimes rely on the knowledge of more experienced coders on the team or forum users if they get stuck on something.

FI-ScottZ

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #12 on: Sep 25, 14, 06:20:44 PM »

Quote
a line of basic tutorials showing just some real basic implementation of certain things
Youtube still has many HeroEngine tutorials, some by the company, some by someone called Raven.
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JoshHalls

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #13 on: Sep 26, 14, 07:40:44 AM »

http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial

Always been my example of something that would really help. That being said, it is an extremely large time commitment by anyone to do something like that. Step by step tutorials on how to build something is much more useful than existing pre-installed options though without a doubt.
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keeperofstars

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Re: any chance we get more frameworks?
« Reply #14 on: Sep 27, 14, 08:54:03 PM »

http://www.burgzergarcade.com/hack-slash-rpg-unity3d-game-engine-tutorial

Always been my example of something that would really help. That being said, it is an extremely large time commitment by anyone to do something like that. Step by step tutorials on how to build something is much more useful than existing pre-installed options though without a doubt.

His tutorials are great, as they really teach, how to build things to support a full rpg but with the intent of it being able to transition to a MMO.

He really covers the really deep concepts people have to have.
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