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Author Topic: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?  (Read 8603 times)

FI-EmilH

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #15 on: Mar 07, 16, 04:48:08 PM »

We have been doing Open Alpha, early customer engagement, for a while with Hero. The pushes used to take a bit but once they were informed in advance they really accommodated us in a timely manner. We were even updating and fixing content in engine during last years GenCon. This is really where Hero shines! Being able to dev alongside playtesters (Customers) in real time is AMAZING! With Hero taking on that upfront server costs it really helps us establish a player base pre-revenue. I have built Unity multiplayer systems on AWS using Unity Park, Smartfox Server, etc. It started costing us about $300 per month just to have our devs and a small group of early users playtest our game. We currently have around 750 alpha keys sent out to users who request them through our FB page. We had over 600 people play the game at GenCon last year and Hero really allowed us to dev on the fly with our customer to great success. There is an engine on the market that delivers a faster feedback loop than Hero. Hope this helps! 8)
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nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #16 on: Mar 07, 16, 11:12:01 PM »

It doesnt really. You are a new person on the forums so I have no clue what game you are talking about or any insight into how you actually got the game to market. As well once again I am fully aware of why this engine is amazing but that doesn't outweigh the concern about how many titles have been launched on HE and their current procedure.



Also I am waiting for a reply from Christopher before continuing. I would like to hear the more technical aspects of actually deploying and keeping the game up and running.
« Last Edit: Mar 07, 16, 11:17:01 PM by nocake »
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ToY-Krun

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #17 on: Mar 08, 16, 09:41:36 AM »

zutto may only have 3 posts to his credit.. but did you take a look at the posts ? :D

hes by no means new hehe, and their game is indeed as he says.

nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #18 on: Mar 08, 16, 11:26:35 AM »

VoZ, a very indie game that started off with very early roots in HE. They were showcased at GDC as well. Hardly a good case to point to. Also last I heard they shut down servers?

from VOZ:
Quote
"Since we were under the Hero cloud platform, the most immediate thing you will notice will be that come end of business day today, the game will be offline and inaccessible… This is unfortunately unavoidable and we do deeply apologize for this. If we had ANY control over this or any immediate options to prevent this service interruption, believe me, we would make use of them. "

From my last review there hasn't been a single game that has come to public release of any kind that wasn't showcased at GDC 2012.

Since then only a few games have even shown promise on these forums. Exile, Blight, Yugoslav Front, Pumpkin, and World Wide Zed.
 
We can just forget about elder scrolls.
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 16, 03:33:34 PM by nocake »
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ToY-Krun

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #19 on: Mar 08, 16, 11:44:42 AM »

https://www.facebook.com/VisionsofZosimos/

VoZ is not shut down.  Also there are a number of others headed for alpha right now and have suggested release sometime in 2017.

the News thread has laid out the progression towards upgrades to the engine and development has been ongoing.

The lack of releases recently has been due to ongoing development by the teams producing the games.

The fact that teams aren't racing to push out games just to get them out there, is a good sign.

There have been issues in the past, thats obvious to everyone and its no secret, but its also no secret that IF has not dropped the ball but has continued to provide support to the world owners. 

The servers did not go down, although there was a suggestion at one point that they might temporarily.
The engine is being worked on, and they've publicly stated the goals (which we're excited about).
They're being as open as they possibly can from a business stand point.

Throughout all of the recent issues they didnt stop supporting, and many worlds did not stop development.

When the world owners stop supporting the engine they're building on, then we'll have cause for concern.

Ive heard that there are at least 5 games planning alpha/beta sometime this year (not counting VoZ who has already reached that stage). 

If you're ready for alpha, thats good news.  Send them an email.  IF in our experience has been very easy to work with.  (not counting no-longer-employed issues!)


In between NEWS updates here on the forums, theres alot that gets talked about on the Skype channels as well.  Get back on skype :)

nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #20 on: Mar 08, 16, 12:35:57 PM »

That skype channel is the worst. Not because of the people but the platform itself. Anyone who has spent any time in the HE channel knows what I am talking about.

Krun you seem to be really passionate about this topic but you are missing all my points.

Also at least 5 games? Can you please list? Saying you want to reach it and actually reaching it are 2 completely different things as well.

Keep in mind my statement still stays true that not a single game has been released that wasnt showcased at 2012 GDC.


I am still waiting for Christopher's reply to my questions before submitting anything in email to IF.

Also against their suggestions I will be submitting it publicly to the forum to be transparent as possible to add credibility back to HeroEngine.


Once again if you are ok with the current status of production then your comments are not needed here. This is about what we can do differently because the current status is not producing anything.

ToY-Krun

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #21 on: Mar 08, 16, 01:23:45 PM »

Quote
Keep in mind my statement still stays true that not a single game has been released that wasnt showcased at 2012 GDC.

HE doesnt create games.  Pretty much everything discussed here falls back on the teams working on the games, and that takes time.. sometimes years.

Many arent full time active with their games either.

I don't think there is anything else i can add to this discussion, just trying to help.
But I will point out just once more, what you're asking for(opening your game up to the public in an alpha form), many have already been in discussion with IF about and are working towards... try talking to them personally.   While i'm sure your intentions are good, This has more of an appearance of open revolt against terms we all agreed to :)

At any rate, I'm bowing out now.   Good luck with your game, its a great concept.

Prometheus2012

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #22 on: Mar 09, 16, 11:16:54 AM »

I dont think 99% of people realise how long it actually takes to make an MMO. Even with big budgets and lots of team members it can take up to 6 years to release one.

You need to talk to IF privately about this kind of thing tbh. Forums are like the least useful place to talk about business plans, forecasts, projections etc for your game or whatever it is you are trying to accomplish with this post.

As Krun says, HE does not make games...the developers make the games. Its up to us to make a game and i know IF will help us. They make money when we do so if your game is viable they sure as shit will be helping you out when and where you need it to get to a money making release.
« Last Edit: Mar 09, 16, 11:19:10 AM by Prometheus2012 »
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nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #23 on: Mar 09, 16, 03:27:31 PM »

I never said HE makes game, I am not trying to revolt. I am asking them to work with the community publicly about possible packages to offer past their current INCLUDING a package that allows me to pay for all the hosting up front initially while still keeping the same revenue sharing model in place.

I am fully aware of how log a project like this can take. I am also aware of how the market has shifted to not releasing even near completed games before hand to sample the market because the start up time takes so long.


If I am paying for the hosting they should not care what my forecasts are. I don't even care if they make money off the hosting side of it.

« Last Edit: Mar 09, 16, 03:34:57 PM by nocake »
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nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #24 on: Mar 09, 16, 03:31:55 PM »

duplicate

HE-CHRISTOPHER

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #25 on: Mar 10, 16, 09:16:50 PM »


"How can we get the 2 weeks down? I have a great team at my hosting company that create some amazing auto-provisioning systems."

    -  As with any software development project of this scale, we balance infrastructure and quality of life improvements with new features and bug fixes.  Ultimately, anything could be done and it is simply a matter of time, available resources and priorities.  That said, it is quite likely anything your team would come up with we've already considered and either plan to use in the future or have disqualified as unsuitable for our particular infrastructure, business needs and development goals. 

The two week setup time (which we pad of course to ensure we can deliver in that time frame) includes a lot of stuff that is significantly different than provisioning a web server or something similarly simple. 

Can there be more automation?  Yes and such improvements are already on our internal roadmaps.  However, the current priority while relatively few games are releasing is less than other features that will provide a much bigger impact for all of the development teams.

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"Is the 2 week set up time for pushing any content including updates or just the set up?"
    -  It depends on a number of factors and how things are configured, whether respository data is truly identical between multiple worlds/"shards", and other factors.  Improvements to our patcher, including differential patching during installation already in development will provide many more options among which reducing the time to generate and assemble patches is one. 

For some games in a production release scenario, two weeks lead time is necessary in order to:  coordinate with their team, account for the fact that teams often fail to adequately test their patch and only after partway through the process identify items they have missed, allow for both internal and external testing of the update and installers.

Other games and/or teams in earlier release states may require less time.

However, when running a live game there is a certain amount of discipline that you should have when releasing updates and especially new installers to ensure that they function as expected (e.g. does the installer work correctly under various conditions; installing over a very old install, installing after an uninstall, updating just the lastest, on all supported OSes...and so on).  So while ultimately the cycle time will be reduced, a professional team will still require (and should expend the effort) to ensure they are deploying a good update to their customers.

« Last Edit: Mar 10, 16, 09:33:03 PM by HE-CHRISTOPHER »
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Christopher Larsen
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HE-CHRISTOPHER

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #26 on: Mar 10, 16, 09:30:52 PM »

Licensed Hosting: This means you make an agreement with another hosting company for them to be able to offer different hosting packages for your software. That hosting company pays a royalty to you for every customer they get to host with them. This put the hassle of hosting a public interfacing game with another company while still protecting your source code via the agreement put in place with IF and the other Hosting Companies.

While we are always willing to discuss potential business opportunities, as someone with intimate knowledge of the issues I judge that few hosting companies would find a good business model in what you want at a price point you are willing to pay.

Adding third party hosting to the equation would significantly affect our productivity as they would require extensive support in order to run their licensed hosts for some period of time.  Also, I believe you greatly underestimate the value provided to you by us assuming the licensing costs of the middleware, database and server OS licenses.

I do understand the point, however there needs to be a business case for both us and the hosting company.

Quote
Offering licensing hosting solves this slightly as it lowers the fear of being restricted to one provider for hosting.

A valid concern, however our primary business model is a Software-as-a-Service/Platform-as-a-Service.

You do of course have the option of purchasing source code, all of the necessary licenses, and then you can select any hosting provider or solution you want.







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Christopher Larsen
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nocake

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Re: Hosting yourself, Licensed hosting?
« Reply #27 on: Mar 11, 16, 01:04:25 PM »

Thank you for your insight. I never said we were web hosting ;) but I understand your reasonings.

My testing will consist of hard resets so I should not have to worry about data.

I will review my game and compile a submission for you guys.
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