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Author Topic: What do you want in an MMO?  (Read 7784 times)

DragonFist

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #15 on: Aug 31, 11, 01:51:14 PM »

I can at least say what I donīt want in an MMO, and it seems that many others think alike.
When I look around I see more and more games getting dumbed down, some of them getting designed to squeeze as much money out of its players as possible.
As we all know, games are getting dumbed down to reach more possible players, to also reach those players that either are overwhelmed by more complex gameplay or that just want a game thatīs easy to understand and quick to play, a "casual" game.
This all is understandable, especially for those that work or plan to work as game developers - you somehow have to pay your rent.

On the other hand it is all that I hate in a game.
When I played Diablo 2 I quickly begin to dislike this endless and stupid spiral of having to find better items to kill harder monsters just to get your hands on even better items that enabled you to kill even harder monsters.
Sadly that sort of gameplay is what is propagated more and more.

So for our game we donīt want that.
We donīt want characters to become exponentially more powerful when they level up, we donīt want items giving ludicrous bonuses just to keep up with the always-getting-harder enemies.
And we certainly donīt want real-money traps like that in some bleed-to-play (I think they are called "free-to-play" officially) games.
For me this also has a moral side and I really could go on and on about this and get really angry.

As an example - I recently searched the web for BigPoint's new bleed-to-play MMO "Drakensang Online".
I stumbled across a forum post where someone talked about having spent 100 Euros for some fill in generic name here-achievement/item/quest/whatchacallit in just ONE DAY for the game "Dark Orbit".
100 Euros! In just a day!
And we all know that those people exist. We all know that there are people who have a lot more time than money and still spend this money on basically meaningless game-"advancements".
And among those people are people who, on top of that, easily fall for gambling and will spend all they have (and more) on things like "lucky crates" that you can buy in some games and that with a chance of one in a million will give you that special cool item.

That sort of gameplay is not gameplay that takes the player by the hand and leads him through a world of wonder that the developers made for the player, with passion.
Itīs not a game for the player at all, itīs a game against the player.
And I despise that very strongly, on grounds of principle.
QFA [Quoted for agreement]

While I believe a "cash store" can be a great source of additional revenue, I dislike the "bleed-to-play" model essentially the same reasons.  The ability to buy a nice armour graphic or a few health potions with cash, i.e. fluff or non-game breaking items, is okay with me.

Completely agree with the "Mudification" of itemization.  I hate the fact that I hero starts off being unable to easily defeat a rat but later can have one thousand orcs beating on him which he can one-hit kill at his leisure because he now has 1million hitpoints, 200,000AC and the "Ultimate Sword of Devastation" that has 30,000dmg/.00002dly.

My view is 1) Itemization should have limited effect on character effectiveness.  Clearly a finely crafted, magical sword should be more useful than a rusty letter-opener, but a well-placed letter-opener could kill Neapolitan Dynamite or Conan.  Getting it in the right place on Conan is another story. which leads to 2) Advancement for a character should mostly be internal and 3) that advancement should not be an exponential increase of base stats such as hitpoints and mana but in what the character can do and how well he/she can do it.

If I went up against Bruce Lee, I would get my @#$% handed to me.  But if he did nothing to defend himself and I chopped at him with a sword (even a rusty one) he would not survive.  He may have more "hitpoints" than me due to the shape he kept himself in, but not so much as to prevent a lethal from being, well, lethal.  On the otherhand, even with a very finely crafted sword in my untrained hands against Bruce Lee, unarmed; Bruce would likely win.  The point being that is his abilities and competence in the field of combat that set us apart,  not some magical difference in the amount of health either of use possess.

And as you point out, that all leads to a vicious circle that never ends.  Now, that said, that vicious circle does result in continuously providing something for the character to do, stupid though it may be.  Something needs to replace that or the game will have limited replay/continued play value.

I hope to address these concepts in my project.
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Nocturnus

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 01, 11, 11:29:15 AM »

I've played all the big commercial games and several of the smaller ones. They've all got things I liked and didn't like. I gotta say though that Ultima Online back in it's earliest days still ranks as the best MMO in my mind. They've gone a bit overboard at this point, but in the first two years the whole system was just perfect in my mind. No character levels, (I detest character levels) only levels of skill and at any time you could decide to learn a new skill out of some 25 available skills.
Huge customization options not only on your stats and skills but clothing and housing as well. When it came to pvp, you never really knew what the other guy had to throw at you. The ability to be anything, any color, any skill level you wanted to be was huge for me. And the mystery of what the other guy could or couldn't do made every pvp encounter unique.

I also loved the fact that you could have 4 crafter characters and still not cover all the crafting options, I think every human has an urge to create things, and sometimes in these games creating or growing things can be a large part of the fun.

When I left WoW I had several top level characters, and had pretty much done it all. The only thing that kept me going there in the last few months was our guild events and the social interaction. The problem I see with games like EQ, WoW and Rift is that everything you can do is set in stone for everyone. You know ahead time what the classes are, what spells they have, and what armor they're supposed to wear. There's nothing really dynamic there, at the end of an expansion you see 50 shamans running around town all wearing the same armor, and casting the same spells.

I would also like to see more of a combined effort in crafting instead of "make this and sell it on the auction house for some other guy to make his item". Something like a gui interface where say a mechanic, an engineer, and a blacksmith all have to combine their time, tools, items and skills to create the cool vehicle mount. This in turn encourages more social interaction between people that may not normally talk to each other.

Oh, and more Ninjas, Robots, and Aliens. :-)

Michael
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jcsmith562

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 01, 11, 06:48:48 PM »

I gotta say though that Ultima Online back in it's earliest days still ranks as the best MMO in my mind.

It's interesting to look back at how far UO reached at the time. But then Everquest became a juggernaut and everyone cloned it's diku-like gameplay. To this day the only game that maybe reached as far or further than UO was Star Wars Galaxies. Most other titles fit into the EQ/WoW mold.
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WoE-Byron

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 01, 11, 07:02:00 PM »

I gotta say though that Ultima Online back in it's earliest days still ranks as the best MMO in my mind.
I couldn't agree more, as I also feel that Ultima Online was one of the best MMO games produced to this day. Even if the graphics technology in antiquated, it is still well designed and worth playing as games are more about game play then graphics and eye candy. Look at Minecraft for example, they made a successful game out of nothing more then simple geometry (like cubes).
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phantomhood

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 01, 11, 07:49:29 PM »

I loved eq my pick for best ever :) of course daoc was pretty sweet too, uo had problems with pvp private servers where much nicer. problem with pvp games one little group gets controll ruins it for the rest.
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joshuacyr

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 04, 11, 10:39:59 AM »

I really enjoy theme-park MMO's (UO, EQ, SW, WOW and soon to be SWTOR)  however I think they have a shelf life.  It may be a long shelf life, if executed well.  For me a persistent world where users can generate their own content, and where there is a mixture of user and game generated events, quests and content... well that is very intriguing.

What got me really thinking a bit differently lately is reading a new book, Ready Player One.  It is a fiction book, by a new author that is really hot right now.  If you love games.  Really love games. Drop whatever you are doing and pick this book up.  Good story, an amazing walk down memory lane game wise and a very very interesting virtual world.  Really great stuff. I would link to it, but not sure on forum rules, and frankly everyone here knows how to use google. 

Anyway, as a specific piece of functionality in an engine that I think would be really interesting is voice chat.  No, not just building a version of vent into a game system. Instead making its use much more immersive.

Lets set the stage for where I am coming from.  Today I take a walk downtown.  Walking down the street I run into  our local city manager, say hello and chat about upcoming municipal stuff, then head to coffee shop, run into a group of friends.  I hang out for a few minutes and meet a new person to town.  Learn they moved here recently from a place very near where I grew up.  We exchange info and I move on.  I head to local pub, bump into a few more friends and we chat about going to see a movie tonight. I see a friend down the end of the pub, and head over there and chat with them about costume ideas for the Halloween parade.  I then jet down to the park were they are doing an outside showing of Indiana Jones (first movie) and drop down with a mix of friends plus some new ones.

In that scenario, it would be very hard to be social in a way I normally would, if I had to do it all via text chat in a game.  Yet the social and community aspect of a game is what gives it longevity.

Lets say we have a virtual world.  In that world players can have buildings.  Maybe a home, maybe a business, etc.  So lets just say it is a business.  In this case a hangout spot like a pub or coffee shop.  In textual chat I would see whatever anyone near me says (types) publicly. This would include my friends, a stranger sitting next to me, and maybe I can even hear the band on the other side of the room.  If I wanted a voice equivalent of that I really can't have it at the moment.  Voice right now is done via group (manually made), guild, or a vent option which is public or private and another process to enter.  A business would have to publish there server ID, pass, and room name, then people have to manually enter that stuff in, etc.  Yuck.  Any new person to the place, game, etc is out of luck.  Standing next to me yet we can't even talk to each other without jumping through hoops.

What if that specific business had settings in which the owner says anyone who enters has an optional voice channel of 'coffee shop xyz'.  Everyone default enters into it maybe (based on settings).  Presto when I walk into a space, I join that group.  Some sort of radius to pick up the voices.  As I walk down the room I hear others, etc.  Other player owned homes or businesses may have options set to invite only for entry, or be an all public place.  As a player I can opt out of voice, or of public voice. At any time I can jump to group voice with friends.  If someone is an issue, they are muted.  Owner can ban them, etc.

All of this really is combined with player controlled locations. Not just housing.  Though I suppose it could be done without it, based on any location even not player controlled.

Anyway it is my thought for a lazy Labor Day weekend.
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phantomhood

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 04, 11, 03:36:17 PM »

Yeah i was looking at that feature also but would be a huge bandwidth draw and you could get bombarded by voices think of gold sellers and spammers now using voice instead one of the many down sides i came up with. if that could be worked out would be a amazing feature.

i could see private vents working maybe each person could host there own with tie ins to the game where they could leave them open to join or leave as they felt or invite only with a pop up if invited or wondered into that chats area. wouldn't want to pay to host them all on my game though that would cost too :)

language translater built into the game would be nice also so someone typing chinese and someone typing english could understand each other like they spoke the same language.
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WoE-Byron

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 04, 11, 09:34:30 PM »

We are going dynamic however not a fully player created world.

We have a system coming together that is more of a Configurable world that a Player Created Content style system. It is really difficult to explain until you actually see our design in action however we believe it can be done with very little increased strain on the game system. The system takes a lot of technical work and planning o be done right in order to create the distinct illusion of Player Created design.

After all, Video games are all about Perception. :)
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XCalPro

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 08, 11, 08:05:57 AM »

I would like to see an MMO that captures the immersion of the Paper & Pencil traditional RPGs. I know that certain things don't translate well into computer games, so some things will now work.

It seems lately that most games are following a cookie cutter approach in where they seem to just rehash what has already been done in other MMOs. Since finding original MMORPGs is difficult, my team and I have decided to create our own.

We will try to create some of the things we liked about previous MMOs. Thinks like the crafting and resource system pioneered by SW:Galaxies in the early days. It seems many of the recent MMOs are catering to the PvP combat oriented players and are neglecting the artisan/crafters. This may seem like a niche market, but we feel that there are enough of those type of players to warrant a full MMORPG focused on crafting and merchant specific features.
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Tony Oliveira aka XCalPro
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Caldenfor

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #24 on: Dec 14, 11, 09:40:04 PM »

What I would like to see:

A development group with the courage to go the path less traveled for the sake of the game. The following is directed towards those aiming to create an open, seamless, world more comparable to the sandbox than the themepark.

Do away with the free-camera 3d MMORPG. If you truly want to create a robust game with an open world then you should seriously consider using a fixed camera 3d world. It would give you the viewing angle similar to Ultima Online, but for that simple restriction you gain so much more. It allows the players and the developers to focus on what is important and that is fun. So much time is spent building worlds where scenic views are a requirement rather than putting forth that effort into the core of the game, the play. This is where the KISS acronym comes to mind.


Do you want your game to be a success in more than just a minor niche market? Elminate the Free-for-all PvP plans. The freedom provided isn't worth the hassle that it causes for your player base. Instead, provide a meaningful PvP solution that is consensual rather than forced on the players.


Do you want to promise the world to your players in an effort to create your dream game? Don't. Start simple and add on to it. Unless you are a full fledged developer, and even then not always, establish the core of your game before wasting time on extra features that may actually take away from your overall design intentions.



I could be wrong, but I know I am not :P. This is why we have opinions. If anyone is working on a 3d UO'ish world/fixed camera endeavor I would like to hear more as I feel it is suitable for an open world and free game experience that also has great market potential.
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Ineedcash12

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 04, 12, 10:35:41 PM »

WOE   I think you will love my game.

Vortex - Dead End Games

Split story lines - meaning different rewards for each one.

Super interactive

No grinding, unless you do odd skills and don't train in the fun ways.

Combat to keep you on your toes.

Kingdoms battle for control of land.

Sorry I cant say more, wish I could, but =\  

Lets just say, You will never need to buy another game. That simple.
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 12, 09:41:04 AM by Ineedcash21 »
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WoE-Byron

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 05, 12, 12:10:48 AM »

WOE   I think you will love my game.

I do not know your game so how do you know what I would think.
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 12, 12:26:06 AM by WoE-Byron »
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XCalPro

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 05, 12, 08:29:25 AM »

I would also like to see more Sci-Fi based MMOs.. I don't mean the cheesy Sci-Fi wrapped MMOs like some recent F2P games which just replace the typical Fantasy art with Sci-Fi art and still use fantasy game mechanics, but a truely hard Sci-Fi universe which incorporates ship to ship combat as well as ground combat. An MMO that is a true sandbox game much like SW:Galaxies where players were free to do and go where they liked. One that incorporates an in depth crafting system much like what Galaxies did before the NGE.

Its too bad that Stargate Worlds never saw the light of day, it had a strong fan base that could have made it successful. There have been attempts to create such a holy grail of Sci-Fi MMOs. The original concepts for Tabula Rasa had some promising ideas, but half way through production they changed the whole game; caving in to "suits" meddling and made it the mess that caused it to ultimately fail.

Even Anarchy Online, which is the longest running "Sci-Fi" MMO that I know of, I would not consider a true Sci-Fi game. To me its more a Sci-Fantasy MMO because of all the "magical" elements.

Can someone please create a true Sci-Fi MMO that doesn't have "magical" or other paranormal elements and just keep it to technology and hard science.
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Tony Oliveira aka XCalPro
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Ineedcash12

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 05, 12, 09:40:30 AM »

WOE - You will be able to see soon (Coming months)


also you said

"I want a game that is not just another World of Warcraft clone.

I want a game that is more based around the players ability to think and react then about how many monsters they can grind.

I want a game that is full of immersion and keeps the player on his/her toes at all times.

I want a game that is always dynamically changing who/what has ownership of areas of the game.

I want a game that is focused around guild mechanics but does not force you to be in the guild.

If you would like to see these things also then watch for our game as we have a plan that will achieve this."

our combat system is really gonna be fun to use, and once outside towns, you can be attacked by wildlife. =]
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 12, 09:42:55 AM by Ineedcash21 »
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WoE-Byron

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Re: What do you want in an MMO?
« Reply #29 on: Jan 05, 12, 10:41:41 AM »

WOE - You will be able to see soon (Coming months)


also you said

"I want a game that is not just another World of Warcraft clone.

I want a game that is more based around the players ability to think and react then about how many monsters they can grind.

I want a game that is full of immersion and keeps the player on his/her toes at all times.

I want a game that is always dynamically changing who/what has ownership of areas of the game.

I want a game that is focused around guild mechanics but does not force you to be in the guild.

If you would like to see these things also then watch for our game as we have a plan that will achieve this."

our combat system is really gonna be fun to use, and once outside towns, you can be attacked by wildlife. =]

Have you read about our game?
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